Fuel is now 3.59 9/10 per Gal

[DarrellM5]

The Tesla Roadster looks promising; but $100,000!!! My '04 diesel VW Jetta cost me $23,000 fully loaded. Even if diesel cost $5/gallon, I could drive it over 600,000 miles before my total cost was $100,000 (not including oil changes). They need to come up with a more affordable/justifiable solution.

[kwo51]

The oil companys have been buying the allturnatives to them for years. The upstarts need to be protected from being bought out to cover their progress into the future.

[toreskha]

Originally Posted by NDS

The problem with electric and hydrogen is the same. How do we make those? A short range electric car would be acceptable as a city commuter, but if you burn oil, coal, natural gas--you're adding an unnecessary step in the process and reducing efficiency. If we had gone to nuclear power for all (a majority) of our domestic electricity-- THEN hydrogen or electric might make sense.

I'm all for nuclear and solar. I don't see where either of those have serious drawbacks that we aren't prepared to deal with. Solar is more than just inefficient purple panels; it can be used in a lot of different configurations that significantly increases its utility.

I heard about a recent proposal to build a large solar plant in Arizona. Basically there's an array of small mirrors powered by servos that acts as one giant mirror. They track the sun to provide the optimum amount of light available. They gather a LOT of light and magnify it into a very intense beam, which is directed at an array of pipes. Those pipes are transparent and have another pipe within them. The space between the pipes is a vacuum, to prevent the heat from escaping. Water runs through the middle pipe at very high speeds and when the light hits it, it is immediately vaporized and goes off to push a turbine. Since AZ has a great deal of sunlight and nothing to do with it, this is a very dependable source of power. Rough estimates show that gathering 100-sq miles of intense AZ light would power the entire US, as it is now (although that's probably without figuring in moving our energy needs for transportation from oil to electric).

So, I'm not suggesting that we put all our eggs in one basket - a single nuclear strike could eliminate our ability to keep the lights on - but it gives an idea as to how much potential solar really has. Nuclear is also great...it's incredibly safe for the most part, and the "waste" is no more radioactive than when it first went in. In fact, it could still be reused to generate more power.

You understand much of our current situation and the need for real development and investment in new sources. I'll still sit here expecting nothing new, different, or revolutionary until all other choices have been exhausted.

Or, until I get elected to Congress and can build the political capital needed to push the Omnibus Solar Panel Subsidzation and NFA Repealment Act through committee, two floor votes and get the Prez to sign it. The eco-freaks will get their solar, we'll get our guns and everyone will be happy. :sly:

[whiskey]

Originally Posted by kwo51

The oil companys have been buying the allturnatives to them for years. The upstarts need to be protected from being bought out to cover their progress into the future.

+1. I saw on the History channel that future archaeologists will refer to current times as "The Oil Age". Food for thought: In every great society throughout history, the wage despairity between the poor and rich continues to grow until a revolution occurs.

[kwo51]

Here in florida it's 381 cheeper to fill up on beer. BS is going to cause rioting if it is not stopped. Goverment insentive used to fill tanks of cars. BS BS BS When is it going to stop?

[kwo51]

3.82 here now.

[toreskha]

Originally Posted by kwo51

Here in florida it's 381 cheeper to fill up on beer. BS is going to cause rioting if it is not stopped. Goverment insentive used to fill tanks of cars. BS BS BS When is it going to stop?

They said people would go nuts when it went past $2/gallon, and there was a bunch of press coverage, but everyone accepted it. Everyone was supposed to go nuts at $3/gallon...same story. $4/gallon...it'll be the same story.

Some people are getting smaller cars, and the demand is encouraging a lot of research. However, it's highly unlikely that rioting would solve anything at all.

It seems like a huge increase but it's really not that big; I heard recently that the average American pays $700 extra per year to fund recent increases in gas prices. In most cases, if people gave up something they don't need anyway - like coffee or cable - that would almost pay for it. If you got a real estate license and sold one house a year, that would probably cover most of the annual gasoline for a medium-sized car.

[HK4U]

Originally Posted by toreskha

They said people would go nuts when it went past $2/gallon, and there was a bunch of press coverage, but everyone accepted it. Everyone was supposed to go nuts at $3/gallon...same story. $4/gallon...it'll be the same story.

Some people are getting smaller cars, and the demand is encouraging a lot of research. However, it's highly unlikely that rioting would solve anything at all.

It seems like a huge increase but it's really not that big; I heard recently that the average American pays $700 extra per year to fund recent increases in gas prices. In most cases, if people gave up something they don't need anyway - like coffee or cable - that would almost pay for it. If you got a real estate license and sold one house a year, that would probably cover most of the annual gasoline for a medium-sized car.

In most cases, if people gave up something they don't need anyway - like coffee or cable - that would almost pay for it.
Yes and if that is not enough perhaps we could give up food. Then when the price hits 10 dollars a gallon we can give up our houses and live on the streets.

[Scarecrow]

gas here was 3.99 the other day.

[toreskha]

Originally Posted by HK4U

Yes and if that is not enough perhaps we could give up food. Then when the price hits 10 dollars a gallon we can give up our houses and live on the streets.

By the time it hits $10/gallon, we had better have another plan in the tube. Otherwise it really will be prohibitively expensive, and there will be actual riots.

I'm a skeptic, though. How long have cars been around? Since the early 20th century. How long have people been around? A lot longer. We seemed to make do before cars or even the railroad, so they're not the only possible source of transportation.

Walking still hasn't gone out of style, and bicycling is practical, especially if you have the kind that fold up and you can put it in your car. Horses and donkeys will get you where you're going. You can also ride a cow or ox - they've been used for thousands of years to plow fields, pull wagons, etc. A golf cart with knobby tires can probably be set up with a roof-mounted solar panel. It might not be fast but it works!

Yep...if gas gets to be $10/gallon, I'm definitely moving back home to the woods and riding a horse (or cow, or whatever) around.