Next time someone says....

[Sheldon]

The United States is not as safe because of all our guns... well here are a few links to refute that baloney.

A nation of criminals | Economist.com

BBC NEWS | UK | Violent crime up by 14%

Britain, Australia Top U.S. In Violent Crime

Comparing international trends in recorded violent crime [Fact sheet]

Gun Control's Twisted Outcome: Restricting firearms has helped make England more crime-ridden than the U.S. - Reason Magazine

TFS Magnum: Crime in the UK versus Crime in the US

There that should be enough to get this discussion started...

[HK4U]

Thanks for the links. I will take a look.

[toreskha]

Crime statistics aren't an exact science...they can be measured in a variety of ways. Administrations and LEAs in most major cities will reformulate the way they calculate crime to put themselves in the best possible light. Sometimes the crimes aren't even calculated correctly at all. Here in Jacksonville, we found 60 extra murders just by doing a recount.

• If a criminal commits multiple acts simultaneously, is that a single act or more? For example, a thug rapes, beats, and kills a woman then takes her money and car. Is that a murder, or an assault, battery, rape, robbery, murder and carjacking? Is it a carjacking or just GTA? Does it count as an "attempted kidnapping"?
• If five thugs commit the same act, is it one instance, multiple instances or what?
• Is a self-defense shooting counted as a "homicide"? Most SAs count it that way.
• What's a "violent homicide"? Does that include smothering, poisoning, etc?

From everything I've heard, the US tends to be lower in property crime. We're probably lower in other categories as well, but higher in terms of your chance of dying as a result of getting shot.

This is really a case of there being no such thing as a utopia. If everyone went OC, we wouldn't have incredibly low crime, any more than if there were no guns at all. A society is either going to have high property crime and low murder/violence (Vietnam, Cambodia, etc) or high violence and low property crime (US and UK, comparatively). Your crime is going to come from somewhere.

[HK4U]

Originally Posted by toreskha

Crime statistics aren't an exact science...they can be measured in a variety of ways. Administrations and LEAs in most major cities will reformulate the way they calculate crime to put themselves in the best possible light. Sometimes the crimes aren't even calculated correctly at all. Here in Jacksonville, we found 60 extra murders just by doing a recount.

• If a criminal commits multiple acts simultaneously, is that a single act or more? For example, a thug rapes, beats, and kills a woman then takes her money and car. Is that a murder, or an assault, battery, rape, robbery, murder and carjacking? Is it a carjacking or just GTA? Does it count as an "attempted kidnapping"?
• If five thugs commit the same act, is it one instance, multiple instances or what?
• Is a self-defense shooting counted as a "homicide"? Most SAs count it that way.
• What's a "violent homicide"? Does that include smothering, poisoning, etc?

From everything I've heard, the US tends to be lower in property crime. We're probably lower in other categories as well, but higher in terms of your chance of dying as a result of getting shot.

This is really a case of there being no such thing as a utopia. If everyone went OC, we wouldn't have incredibly low crime, any more than if there were no guns at all. A society is either going to have high property crime and low murder/violence (Vietnam, Cambodia, etc) or high violence and low property crime (US and UK, comparatively). Your crime is going to come from somewhere.

Only thing I know is the more armend citizens you have shooting back the less repeat offenders you will have.

[kwo51]

If the truth was told it would not be P.C. We must be protected from the truth.

[ronwill]

Unfortunately, I can find just as many "statistics" showing the other way. It's an inexact, and easily manipulated, science. Our best bet is to stick with known facts based on actual events. Just my 2 cents worth.

[tattedupboy]

Originally Posted by ronwill

Unfortunately, I can find just as many "statistics" showing the other way. It's an inexact, and easily manipulated, science. Our best bet is to stick with known facts based on actual events. Just my 2 cents worth.

You're exactly right. Detroit had one of the nation's highest murder rates before Michigan became shall issue, and it continues to have among the highest murder rates since its advent. Same with my hometown of Gary, Indiana.

[kwo51]

Look at who make up most of the population in or jails. Is this a fluke or is this a sign of the times. Those numbers don't lie. Monsters come in all colors .

[tattedupboy]

Originally Posted by kwo51

Look at who make up most of the population in or jails. Is this a fluke or is this a sign of the times. Those numbers don't lie. Monsters come in all colors .

Not sure I know exactly what you're talking about. Can you elaborate?