Another "Self defense-free-zone" attacked

Steve Drevik · #21 07-30-2008, 09:19 AM

Hi, this is Steve Drevik (not 'Steve Drevick', I hate the Associated Press).

I should point out that we took down this gun in 3-5 seconds without the use of a gun (us liberals can be pretty physical when called for- I don't feel bad for a minute that we snapped his arm). It is the widespread opinion of the congregation that a CCW would not have done any better, and in fact may have caused more injuries and deaths should there have been any stray shots.

Yeah, yeah, I know someone is going to talk about training, but people were running everywhere, and the room was quite crowded. I don't think this would change anyone's mind about carrying a weapon into our church. Will we hire professional armed guards? Perhaps, quite likely. That is a more appropriate response to the threat of a copycat.

And yes, we are a church. We are a congregation joined in love, spirituality, and the search for eternal truths. You don't have to agree with everything we believe, we simply ask that we not be shot for it.

Personally? Yeah, I might get a CCW since I was a visible spokesperson and I also happen to be running for a local county political office. I don't want another nutcase coming to my home, where I don't have fellow parishioners to help me tackle the guy.

I also don't think TN allows guns in church- I think that law came up a year or two ago, but didn't pass. I'm not positive, though.

Thanks for letting me chime in with my $0.02.

Shoots Running · #22 07-30-2008, 09:49 AM

Thanks for 'chiming in,' Steve. You guys done good! Sorry about your losses though.

Unless it's very recent, I don't believe churches are on the proscribed list for CCW in TN. It's up to the individual congregation I think. At any rate, we see what good such a law would have done.

Thanks again for dropping by.

Be safe.

Steve Drevik · #23 07-30-2008, 02:31 PM

Thanks for your support, and thanks for doing all you guys do to provide, ahem, "options" for those who choose to defend themselves with CCWs or home-based weapons. I'm certainly not an anti-gun person and, as I said, I had not seen the need for a CCW in my life, but that time might be coming.

Again, I appreciate everything you folks do to promote safe responsible ownership and use. I may go out window shopping later this week. I was in the Army, so a 1911 (the 5" of course) has a certain sentimental appeal to me... any recommendations are appreciated.

kwo51 · #24 07-30-2008, 05:31 PM

God told me to have all you send me ammo. I think he was laughing when he said it.

tattedupboy · #25 07-30-2008, 06:46 PM

Greetings and let me be he first to welcome you to USA Carry, Steve Drevik. I hope you enjoy this site.

This is the first time I can recall anyone from any major shooting incident joining any of the pro 2A forums to which I belong. What I like about it is the fact that it gives the members insight on the incident from someone who was actually there. Even with as much opining as we do about incidents like these, we can never be truly in the know the same way that someone who was actually there is.

Thanks for the info. Now that we are seeing things from your perspective, I feel that you should also try to see things from ours. While it is indeed very fortunate that members of the congregation were able to stop the gunman without firing any shots, nothing is quite as effective at stopping a shooter as another shooter. How do think your chances would have been of stopping the threat if it had been just you (unarmed) against him with his gun?

HK4U · #26 07-30-2008, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tattedupboy

Greetings and let me be he first to welcome you to USA Carry, Steve Drevik. I hope you enjoy this site.

This is the first time I can recall anyone from any major shooting incident joining any of the pro 2A forums to which I belong. What I like about it is the fact that it gives the members insight on the incident from someone who was actually there. Even with as much opining as we do about incidents like these, we can never be truly in the know the same way that someone who was actually there is.

Thanks for the info. Now that we are seeing things from your perspective, I feel that you should also try to see things from ours. While it is indeed very fortunate that members of the congregation were able to stop the gunman without firing any shots, nothing is quite as effective at stopping a shooter as another shooter. How do think your chances would have been of stopping the threat if it had been just you (unarmed) against him with his gun?

How do think your chances would have been of stopping the threat if it had been just you (unarmed) against him with his gun?

Or several gunmen.

Steve Drevik · #27 07-30-2008, 10:52 PM

"I feel that you should also try to see things from ours."

... I thought I made clear that I have never been against CCW laws/rights. To say that I never saw the need for one myself is not equal.

And you're absolutely right- one shooter vs. one unarmed (or even two) is a clear situation where it's obvious better to be armed (and trained, of course). If the shooter had more distance from the crowd where it took longer to be rushed, certainly a CCW would come in quite handy then. And I will also agree that there are not (to my knowledge) any cases I can think of where bystanders have been hit by friendly CCW fire. I've seen that video of the hotel lobby near-robbery.

Still, it's just a hard sell to my particular congregation- most feel that for this particular case, a CCW would have been adding to the risk. They'll go for a trained guard (and just about every church in my town is talking about hired security or designated CCW congregants). And I'll respect their call.

I have more recently understood that CCWs are allowed in churches here, unless they post a sign barring weapons (and our church had no such sign).

I will say it's good that the local blogs have not been tossing back the gun control issue. Given that the suspect used a shotgun, it would be pointless and silly.

So, no objection to the 1911? :)

Shoots Running · #28 07-31-2008, 12:39 AM

FWIW, I never thought Steve was anti-CCW or needed to be lectured about it.

Americans use firearms between 2 and 2.5 MILLION times a year to protect themselves from criminal attack. These are not pro-gun figures, but come from various 'neutral' sources.

A gun-resistant congregation -- for whatever reason -- needs to be courted slowly and with reason, it seems to me. gunfacts.info is a good place to start. Maybe printing out a dozen or so copies and passing them around could help. Of course, this could also spawn an anti-firearm reaction, as my experience has been that many anti- or a-gun folks are immediately turned off by anything that doesn't condemn guns right out of the box.

But just think about options. If you had your trusty 1911 on your hip, CCW of course, you can ALWAYS choose to tackle the BG without accessing it. Fluid conditions demand fluid responses. Luck favors the prepared mind.