Tell a LEO you have a ccw

[HK4U]

Originally Posted by ishi

The law simply means that if an officer says "May I see your concealed carry license"? You must produce the license, and also another form of identification.

As for spontaneously informing, I see no need to do that. It's best to keep your conversations with LEOs as short as possible in my opinion. Obey the letter of the law.

If an officer wants to get bent out of shape because you didn't wave your license for him at first, that's on him. And it most certainly would NOT be probable cause to search your vehicle. Probable cause means the officer has cause to believe there is evidence of a particular crime hidden in your vehicle. Since the officer knows that you have a license, even if there was a gun there, no crime would have been committed. Such a search would be a violation of the 4th amendment.

This also means that if you are asked for your license and you produce it, and the officer decides to ask further, "are you carrying a weapon today?" you do NOT have to answer. In fact, outside of providing your driver's license, registration and insurance (and carry permit, if asked), you do not need to say ANYTHING AT ALL during a stop, no matter what questions the officer asks you.

There is no law that compels you to answer a police officer's questions, and they can't arrest you for not answering. Just because they're wearing a badge doesn't give them the power to question you about any particular thing they feel like. "Sir, what did you have for breakfast this morning? What, you don't want to answer? You don't have anything to hide, do you?"

This type of tolerance for police harassment is sometimes prevalent on internet gun forums, where people tend to worship Authority and police power. I find it pretty distasteful.

-ishi

Hello ishi, have not seen you around for a while. Hope everything is well with you.

[DrLewall]

Ishi, good to see you back on..been wonderin' how you been..btw, I argree with you as for answering questions asked by LEO's. Some LEO's, mostly the rookies, let the gun and badge thing go to their head, as if they are wearing a Power Ranger costume. Be nice, courtious, but also be catuious and limit your answers and know when not to answer.

[FN1910]

Are you sure about all that not answering etc. If you are pulled over for a traffic violation it is my understanding that you can be carried to jail, I know it is rare but possible at least here in SC. Also in SC you are required to present your permit if asked for ID and are carrying but the permit is not tied into either the drivers license or vehicle license plates. As for them being tied to vehicle license I think is stupid as the car I drive is in my wife's name and the one she normally drives is in mine. I also drive a state owned car at times.

I imagine that if you are pulled over for a traffic violation and refuse to do or say anything other than hand the officer your license, registration and insurance card it is going to be a long exciting day for you.

[HowardCohodas]

For most of us a traffic stop is a high stress situation. For those of us who wish to carry when traveling to other states, it is imperative that we be prepared to handle a traffic stop in any state where we might be carrying. From a training perspective, it is a good idea to develop and practice a procedure that will work in any state. In that way you don't have to evaluate, under stress, the details of what to do in the particular state you are in at the moment.

My recommendation:
. Pull off expeditiously. The LEO will usually not ask you to stop unless he considers it safe.
. Put on your internal lights.
. If available, turn on a voice recorder. Many cell phones have this capability. If you have any legitimate complaints, this will help.
. Open both front windows. The LEO may approach you on either side.
. Put your hands on the steering wheel.
. Without removing your hands, immediately and politely inform the LEO that you have a CCP and if your armed or not. If you say you are armed, he is likely to ask where you are carrying.
. Obey his instructions without objections. If you feel you have been mistreated, there is time to complain to supervision after the traffic stop is completed.

Although I have yet to be stopped since obtaining my permit and carrying, I continue to evolve and practice my plan. Any suggestions, especially from LEO, would be greatly appreciated.

[LeavingMass]

Why the hell do I need to carry my CC License if I'm not carrying my weapon ?

Scenario1 :
Cop: Do you have any firearms in the vehicle ?
Me: Nope
Cop: Drivers license please...
End of story

Scenario 2:
Cop: Do you have any firearms in the vehicle ?
Me: Yes
Cop: May I get your CCW Permit along with your Crivers License.....

Officers should only be "demanding" CCW permit ONLY if you are in possession of a concealed weapon

Next I need to also drive around with my HS Diploma, My College Degrees, and any other licenses I possess ?

[HowardCohodas]

Originally Posted by LeavingMass

Why the hell do I need to carry my CC License if I'm not carrying my weapon ?

Ignorance will not get you off in those states where you are required to inform you have a CCP whether you are carrying or not.

[ishi]

It's true that an LEO can arrest you for any infraction at all, real or imagined. However, being cowed into compliance by the threat of a false arrest is very close to fascism in my book.

I've got my own 'script' for being stopped here in Arkansas (it would change if out of state). Here 'tis.

(me, with drivers lic, reg and insurance in hand, with windows rolled down and hands on the wheel)

LEO: driver's license, registration and insurance please?

(I hand them over)

LEO: are you carrying any drugs, firearms or dangerous items in your car today?

me: With respect officer, I'd prefer to talk about why you stopped me today, and not what I do or don't have in my vehicle.

LEO: Can you step out of the car please sir?

(I step out of the car, LEO searches me and finds my weapon at 4 o'clock, proceeds to cuff me)

LEO: Do you have a license for this?

me: Yes officer, in my wallet in my right front pocket.

(officer finds the license)

LEO: why didn't you tell me about this before?

me: There are currently around 20 states that require citizens with carry licenses to spontaneously notify LEOs. Arkansas is not one of them.

LEO (quite cranky): Do you mind if I have a look in your car sir?

me: I won't consent to that search, officer. Would you mind uncuffing me, please?

LEO: where are you driving today, sir?

me: with all respect sir, I'm only trying to get from point A to point B. I'm not breaking any laws, and I don't really feel like answering your questions. May I go now?

LEO (extremely grumpy, uncuffs me, writes out my ticket for the largest fine allowed by law for an infraction which I may or may not have commited, hands me back my weapon with the bullets removed from the magazines, and gives me a grumpy lecture on how I should act appropriately in awe of the omnipotent power of the badge the next time I'm stopped)

me: Thank you officer, have a nice day.

(the entire episode probably lasts less than an hour, and may or may not involve backup being called)

Now, let's count the number of constitutional rights I exercised above.

2nd amendment, check (keeping and bearing arms)
4th amendment, check (refusing an unreasonable search)
5th amendment, check (declining to be interrogated)

Yes, exercising your rights may not be the most convenient thing on earth, and it may take a bit of your time. It may even piss off an officer or two. But you will walk away feeling pride that you live in a free country.

-ishi

Originally Posted by FN1910

Are you sure about all that not answering etc. If you are pulled over for a traffic violation it is my understanding that you can be carried to jail, I know it is rare but possible at least here in SC. Also in SC you are required to present your permit if asked for ID and are carrying but the permit is not tied into either the drivers license or vehicle license plates. As for them being tied to vehicle license I think is stupid as the car I drive is in my wife's name and the one she normally drives is in mine. I also drive a state owned car at times.

I imagine that if you are pulled over for a traffic violation and refuse to do or say anything other than hand the officer your license, registration and insurance card it is going to be a long exciting day for you.

[FN1910]

LEO: where are you driving today, sir?

me: with all respect sir, I'm only trying to get from point A to point B. I'm not breaking any laws, and I don't really feel like answering your questions. May I go now

LEO: I am sorry sir but I clocked you at 65 in a 55 zone so I believe that you are breaking a law. Do you want to cooperate here or at the jail house?

I don't know about Arkansas but in SC the HP can and will carry you to jail for a traffic violation. If you are an out-of-state resident and get pulled if you cannot post bail you can plan on going to jail until someone can bail you out. If you are a SC resident they have the option of allowing you to continue on a personal recognizance bond. I would not try to pull your little speech on a SC Highway Patrolman. I know several of them personally and they will carry you to jail.

[HowardCohodas]

Originally Posted by ishi

I've got my own 'script' for being stopped here in Arkansas (it would change if out of state).i

Having two scripts does not seem realistic in a stressful situation. You have more self confidence than I do.

A man's got to know his limitations.
-- Harry Callahan (Clint Eastwood) Magnum Force

[LeavingMass]

Originally Posted by HowardCohodas

Ignorance will not get you off in those states where you are required to inform you have a CCP whether you are carrying or not.

I guess they can also arrest people for walking without their drivers license ?