ON TARGET FIREARMS TRAINING [PARKER, CO or AURORA, CO]

[COGunNewbie]

I suggest looking elsewhere for firearms training in my case. Both me and my girlfriend had taken the basic course. No issues there. We had signed up again and prepaid for the advanced course at $400.00 each, $800. Well after the fact we had discussed with the instructor that we may have to move to a later date or just cancel. He had stated, let's just see and wait.

Well the issue is my mother is sick and is out of state and she had asked my girl friend to stay with her for a couple months so we had to cancel.
My girl friend e-mailed Larry stating this fact and it should have been a simple OK. I requested a refund and stated we would sign up next year anyways.

He said he had an administrative fee and a credit card fee he could not refund. That is okay. I understand. But then he included this in his e-mail. "Be advised, whenever someone drops out, I do not allow future enrollment. As a business person I am sure you also understand this rationale."

I did not quite understand that even as a business person. So on the phone he explains that he has MANY people canceling classes and giving him BS excuses on why and he does not tolerate that so he bans them from his classes.

That is fine for him. But if someone wants to cancel let them cancel. It sounds like his statement is done out of spite to get back at the person and to make them feel bad that they can no longer take his classes. If he has that many cancellations then maybe the problem is with him, not with the people wanting to cancel. And to be frank it should be NONE of his business why someone wants to cancel whether they decide they don't feel up to it, or they rather play golf that day instead, etc. He is not loosing money. He claims his classes are always busy so then this should not matter to him.

I do not appreciate being automatically assumed that we are lying on why we want to cancel our class. And to be honest we do NOT need to give him a reason why PERIOD. It's none of his business but as an act of decency we let him know the reason why in the beginning as a common courtesy from one person to another.

He said he would make an exception for us after I explained that we do not lie about something like that and others maybe give him the run around but we do not. I do not need any favors from him.

When I stated I wanted a refund he asked why. His reasoning is that since we're going to take the class at a later date next year we do not need to. First of all, that is in 8 months. We don't know him personally and anything can happen in 8 months. He could disappear, close shop or just something unfortunate could happen to where he cannot train anymore. Then where would we be if he could not refund us? The credit card company won't do a charge back after 8 months neither.

It just seemed like he was trying to do his best to avoid giving me a refund by his conversation to be honest after that conversation would someone really want to take his class and feel uncomfortable about it.

This guy maybe a good trainer and a nice person but it seems like he does not like it when you want your money back and if you need to cancel class. He basically turned in to a totally different person.

There are PLENTY of gun safety trainers in Colorado that matches his background in experience. We will take our classes elsewhere. His business ethics and morals are not that of a business person and he claims it is JUST BUSINESS but it more sounds like he takes it personal. I think is it childish to e-mail a statement like that.

[COGunNewbie]

I have received my refund check. All Larry Johnson needed to do was send the refund check. He has said his words to me via email yet along with my refund check he has to type out a condescending letter to yet try and put me down again. Here it is word for word.

"[NAME], after receiving your e-mail where you seemed, shall we say, somewhat irate I elected to circumvent my accountant and immediately write a refund check to you so that you are not placed in a position of having to go on blood pressure medication. Your "War & Peace" in length e-mail confirmed you are not the type of person that I'd want in any future class anyway. You were correct. Heck, I could even die before April, along with all the other scenarios you included. Besides, as you stated, "we will all be going to another shooting instructor I have found." Hmmmmmm, have found. I think I am seeing the light.

Do yourself a favor. Do, in fact, take more training with the instructor you HAVE found because, it is obvious you are not emotionally equipped, at this point, to obtain a concealed carry permit and carry a firearm. You would be a danger to yourself and others because your perception of things is, and I suspect always has been, very irrational and way off base. You are NOT emotionally equipped to handle such a grave responsibility.

You might consider selling all firearms you may own and take up Hockey. They let you start swinging when ever you have had too much coffee and sugar.

I could go on and on, like you incorrectly did, but experience has shown that the problem with continuing to engage someone with your sensitive mind set, and obvious uncontrollable anger, in a battle of wits they are unarmed...."

WOW, this guy is a psychiatrist now and a comedian with all the little inserted insults with every sentence "go on blood pressure medication" "Your "War & Peace" in length e-mail" "take up Hockey" " too much coffee and sugar.". I HIGHLY suggest anyone looking for an instructor to avoid this person and go with someone that is a little more human.

And to sum it all up all I did was cancel a class and ask for a refund. It's not that hard to say "Ok" and send a refund out.

[rosemr]

Dear Newbie:

I took Larry's course back in April of 2009, right after I got laid off from my job. I, like you, did not know him from a can of paint. He was recommended to us by Rocky Mountain Guns n Ammo.

I read your dissertation about your sick mother...you know what...we get it! Life happens! However, I have to agree with Larry that if you plan on taking the course in 8 months, why do you need a refund? The guy has been in business for like ever! He does not play games....he is the most straight laced person I have ever met. And if you bothered to do any research about him, you would have known that. When I went to Douglas County to submit my paperwork, the woman saw that I was trained by Larry and she spent the next 10 minutes talking to me about how nice of a person he is...how good of an instructor he is. The guy is very well known in Colorado and very respected with law enforcement.

I will say that you do allot of whining and I do not blame him for not letting you back after you drop out. The guy has like a waiting list so long, he doesn't need you. He trains law enforcement. And one thing he says in his class is " If I don't feel that you are competent to handle that firearm, I will not sign my name to your certificate...I'll refund your money and no hard feelings " The guy is very " in your face " about how he does his classes...and you know what, its fricken AWESOME!!!! The best instructor I have had the privilege of having...and I have had a few.

Go find someone hack...enjoy yourself! You will NOT get what Larry offers. You will get your run-o-the-mill training...just enough to get your CCW...but Larry goes into survival tactics! He teaches you how to survive a situation and what to do and NOT to do. What the law states, and how to deal with LE when stopped in a car. I mean, the $$$ you paid, is a piss hole in the snow compared to the info you will get from his course.

My advice to you my friend...if you care about your wife and yourself...want to keep safe as possible...know that when you walk out of that training you are actually 1 up on most people...plead with him to let you back in!!! Go find some jerk that will do your CCW for like $100.00 a piece...wipe your ass with your cert dude!

You had something come up...WE GET IT!!! I signed up for his Shotgun Class, but my unemployment ran out and I couldn't afford the class...so I cancelled, no issue! Take your admin fee...whatever! The guy is worth the money and if you are too dumb to realize it...you don't deserve to be trained by the best!

[rosemr]

Ok, this guy has to be the worlds worst Customer! After reading this post, I cannot blame Larry for dumping your ass!

OnTarget Firearms Training is by far the best place in Metro Denver to get training for your CCW

Larry is the best instructor there is...and quite frankly you sound like you have way too much going on in your life to devote 8 hours to a course. You sound like one of those whiners that always has a reason why you couldn't get your homework done on time.

You know what...please find someone else! Do not use up spots with Larry when its obvious you have not committed 100% to it. Those of us who went through his class...passed it...have their CCW...know exactly what I am talking about.

Everyone has something going on...but we take the time anyway. I know...you have a sick mother..WE GET IT!!!!

Stop wasting people's time...And thank god your are banned!