Private Security License and Reciprocity

[jimmiepoison]

I have been doing some research on the maximum state reciprocity that I can acquire. The problem is that there are a handful of states that only recognize resident permits so even if I obtain a permit that many states recognize (such as Florida or Utah) there are a whole handful of state that will not recognize those permits because I am not a resident of those states. In my research I began to look into armed private security licensing. I do not totally know how this works from state to state, but it appears that if you have a private security license you can conceal carry in more places and are in some cases treated almost as military and law enforcement. From what I have found, any law abiding citizen with a clean record can obtain a private security license with the proper class training. What I am wondering is if there is a way through the private security licensing route to make sure that I can legally carry in some of these other states without accidentally becoming a felon. I travel frequently (in all 50 states) because of my job in which I own my own company. Could I designate myself as my own company's security leader and be "on duty" while traveling for work and be able to carry almost everywhere? Also, does having a private security license or a private investigator license work to your benefit in court if you ever have to defend yourself after a lethal encounter? Basically, if obtaining a private security license brings any benefit in court or in my ability to carry legally, it may be worth it to me to acquire the license. I am sure the extra training wouldn't hurt either. Does anyone have any knowledge about this stuff? After all there are private security firms like Xe (formerly Blackwater) that have full automatic weapons and seem to carry wherever and whenever they want to or need to. I know some of the big firms are in bed with the government, but how far down do these "rights" trickle down to the smaller security and body guard operations?

[2beararms]

I am neither licensed in private security (though have considered it) nor an expert, however what I see (at least based on Florida Law) is the difference between a "guard" and a "company".

Getting licensed as a armed security guard is no big deal, however, just having this license does not allow you to go form a security "company". There is generally an "apprentice" period where you must work for and perhaps even be management in an existing licensed company. This is sometimes waived for former LEO, however, if you qualified for that, you would likely qualify under the LEO provisions to carry nationwide and this conversation would be mute.

Then, even if you get to the point where you can form your company, or head your companies security as stated, only then do you need to figure what the other states and federal laws will have in store for you.

You best bet to ever be able able to carry nationwide short of becoming LEO is to lobby, lobby, lobby. Not real likely at the moment but anything is possible and legislatures ARE people too ... contrary to what the show.

[JJFlash]

There are other ways this could possibly go sideways on you. I'm not an attorney but a CPA and it's the business aspects of this scenario which could come back to haunt you. When the gubmint looks at your business, "intent" is a key concept. Is this a business wherein the "intent" is to make a profit at said business, for example. Are the expenses incurred "normal" and "necessary" for this business. Does this "business" HAVE any expenses (or revenue, for that matter)? If not, the "business" might be called a sham. So, if you're trotting around with a securities license and a sidearm and are popped for illegal carry, a good prosecuting attorney is quickly gonna expose your license and security business as being fraudulent. Easily done by asking to see the financial statements/tax returns associated with the "securities business". So, by my reckoning, probably not a worthwhile endeavor to spend your time and money on. Nice thought, tho...

[kengrubb]

Originally Posted by jimmiepoison

Could I designate myself as my own company's security leader and be "on duty" while traveling for work and be able to carry almost everywhere?

You could designate yourself your company's Grand Imperial Minister Of Things Most Excellent, but it ain't gonna change a thing in terms of carrying concealed in any state.

Originally Posted by jimmiepoison

Basically, if obtaining a private security license brings any benefit in court or in my ability to carry legally, it may be worth it to me to acquire the license.

Being a licensed private investigator doesn't have a danged thing to do with concealed carry. There are folks who do PI work, like skiptracing, from the comfort of their computer.

Some PIs do obtain a license to carry because there can be inherent danger in some of what they do, and even in states like Maryland a legit licensed PI can get a license to carry. However, even if you work for a licensed PI firm, or are the owner of a licensed PI firm, if you aren't licensed to carry in a given state, and you get caught, you'll need a bail bondsman.

There no such thing as a federally licensed PI, so as with concealed carry, you'll be seeking a PI license and/or license to carry from each individual state where you wanna carry.

Originally Posted by jimmiepoison

After all there are private security firms like Xe (formerly Blackwater) that have full automatic weapons and seem to carry wherever and whenever they want to or need to.

Blackwater goons carry weapons while under contract with a government, somewhere, usually.

[Jim_Macklin]

The laws of each state require that a company be licensed to operate within that state.
For example, Kansas State law KSA 21-4201 recognized Railroad Detectives employed by a rail company to carry, but that does not necessarily extend to a trucking company such as OPS.

Getting a business license in 24 states or all 50 is a big task and expensive.

AFAIK, private security, such as travels with a private celebrity, hires a local firm or LEO.

[Dewhitewolf]

The Armored Car Reciprocity Act is what I think u are referring to (18 USC §§ 5901-5904). It does not apply to PI's; it applies to armored car personnel transporting goods across state lines.

US CODE: Title 15,CHAPTER 85—ARMORED CAR INDUSTRY RECIPROCITY

In order to be protected by this law, you have to fall under the definition of an armored car carrier (narrowly construed). You will be hard pressed to obtain an armored car company's license in any state if you are not legitimately engaged in that business (and arguably, always "on duty").

Bottom line, this does not give everyone who works in the armored car industry the right to carry nationwide; it only applies when they are actively working armored car security.

[Jim_Macklin]

Before Kansas adopted the concealed carry law, a friend who was interested in starting a new business got licensed as a KS PI and was approved by the KS AG to carry.
His cost was over $1,000 a year for bonding, insurance, licensing and testing. And he could only carry guns he registered by make, mode, caliber and serial number. And he had to qualify with each gun.

It was only valid in Kansas. He did try to make a profit, ran ads on TV and in other places. Did some background checks and some security. He has finally retired to the farm in another state and has a CCL that is valid in many states for less than he spent on ammo for one year before to qualify.

[g30sheepdog]

Originally Posted by Dewhitewolf

The Armored Car Reciprocity Act is what I think u are referring to (18 USC §§ 5901-5904). It does not apply to PI's; it applies to armored car personnel transporting goods across state lines.

US CODE: Title 15,CHAPTER 85—ARMORED CAR INDUSTRY RECIPROCITY

In order to be protected by this law, you have to fall under the definition of an armored car carrier (narrowly construed). You will be hard pressed to obtain an armored car company's license in any state if you are not legitimately engaged in that business (and arguably, always "on duty").

Bottom line, this does not give everyone who works in the armored car industry the right to carry nationwide; it only applies when they are actively working armored car security.

oh man ya beat me to it .....yeah, what Dewhitewolf said!...