Citizen's Arrest
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Citizen's Arrest

This is a discussion on Citizen's Arrest within the Concealed Carry Discussion forums, part of the Main Category category; Here's the scenario: You're at a friend's house, celebrating his birthday. You're currently carrying, and therefore only drinking water and ...

  1. #1
    Join Date
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    Default Citizen's Arrest

    Here's the scenario:

    You're at a friend's house, celebrating his birthday. You're currently carrying, and therefore only drinking water and soda. Nobody else knows you're carrying, and when asked why you're not drinking, you respond with the fact that you are the driver.

    Fast forward a couple hours. Party's dying down, so you and your friend decide to leave and head back home. As you're both leaving the house, you hear a domestic disturbance next door that's pretty heated. A woman storms out of the house in a hurried fashion, followed by the husband. He grabs her arm, while yelling at her to get back in the house. She tries to free her arm, but can't. The man wrenches her arm in a painful way, attempting to drag her back into the house.

    Seeing both of you next door, watching the event, the woman screams for help. You tell your buddy to call 911, as you draw your concealed firearm. You tell the man very sternly to let her go, and to back away. The man complies, but now what?

    I'm not advocating that CCW holders should have powers to arrest, but what would you do in the above situation after the man backs away? For this reason, I think carrying a simple pair of zip tie cuffs could do a lot of help. You could order the man to the ground, and have your friend secure his hands. There's a lot of what ifs, but the main thing I think is important is putting your gun away, so it's not out when the police arrive. You could then have the man sit while you and your friend keep eye on him.

    What kind of legalities would there be regarding this situation? I think zip tie cuffs are great. They're small, can be purchased or made easily, and are ideal for securing a person temporarily. We use them in the military all the time.

    Then of course come the what ifs, like:
    -What if you're alone?
    -What if the person tries to escape?
    -What will the police think when they get there?

    Looking for some people's opinions and/or advice, if they've been in a similar situation.

  2. #2
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    I'm getting my permit soon and have been doing a lot of reading on things like this as well as going through a lot of scenarios in my head. I'm a night janitor at a bank and most of my scenarios have been related to that but something like you've posted is very possible. I don't know if I would be quite so quick to draw unless the guy was armed. Then if he was, I'd have to quickly make the decision, before drawing, whether I'm willing to pull the trigger in that given situation. I think first, if you have other people with you, try to defuse the situation, get the female involved away from the a-hole and see if you can get things to cool down. Every situation is different with a million possible outcomes but constraint is usually going to be the most desirable action. BUT in your scenario, when you've had to make the decision to draw and the a-hole has complied, I would make him stay on the ground, face down, arms out straight until the cops arrive. Also I'd make sure that whoever calls 911 lets dispatch know that you're armed and what your description is so the cops know what to expect when they get there. And, maybe have your gun put away just before they actually arrive. Having friends sit on the guy can be a big help too. As far as zip-ties, just something else to carry around but yeah, could come in handy.

    If the guy tries to run, do NOT shoot him! That will make life a living hell for you. Let him run, the cops will find him later. You've stopped possible spousal abuse which should be your primary goal. Most of the time, the victims end up not filing charges anyway, which is another topic altogether.

    Just my 2 cents worth, probably worth 3/10 of a cent, what with inflation. :-)

  3. #3
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    why would you even pull your weapon that would be the last thing to do....my thinking would be put the weapon away and difuse the situation by getting her away from if you have to pull your weapon for something minor like that then maybe you shouldn't carry one......................

  4. #4
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    I would not draw my firearm in this scenario. You did not mention any instance of "deadly force" in the situation. Yeah the guy grabbed her, yeah, she cried for help, but I did not read anywhere that the guy had a knife, club, gun, etc. It's not a very good situation to be in. You already have a friend calling 911, which is a good thing. Next move would be to seperate the lady from the alleged perp. Notice I used the word "alleged". The reason I used the term is that you don't know what went on prior to the lady running outside and screaming for help. It could very well be that the guy found out she was messing around on him and threatened to leave. At that point, maybe the lady assaulted the man possibly kicking him someplace sensitive or maybe even using some type of deadly instrument (like a firearm or knife). It's possible that the guy disarmed her and she attempted to get away by running out the door yelling for help. I'm in no way condoning domestic violence. I'm putting the "what if's" out there so others would think before acting. As a firearms instructor, it's my duty to educate my students on the legalities of using their firearms. Part of this would involve talking through scenarios as you described. My advice is NEVER draw your firearm in defense of others unless you're SURE (be it "positively", "absolutely", 99%, etc) of what the situation is AND you are willing to face the consequences of your actions. You will most likey be arrested, or at minimum detained. You may spend some time in jail. You most likely will spend a lot of money on legal fees (contrary to popular belief, I woudn't bother with services like "Prepaid Legal". Think about it, if you're a working professional earning a certain rate of pay for your services, would you really want to be making less money per hour and still put out your 100%? I'm not slamming the service, just speaking from persona experience.)

    Once you get the two parties isolated and everyone is "safe", wait for the police. It's their job to investigate and question both parties to figure out what happened. You may want to have your photo ID AND carry permit ready to present to arriving officers. Domestic violence calls are HUGE wild card for LEO. They never know what knd of mess they're walking into. It could be a simple argument between two parties, or it could be a large family duking it out. They don't know if anyone is armed or any other potential dangers. It's best to let the LEO do their jobs when they arrive and cooperate the best way you can. By being a good witness, you could provide valuable information to LEO.

    As for physically restrining anyone, DON'T DO IT! We've discussed the matter on other threads. Anytime an ordinary citizen attempts to "arrest" another citizen, many bad things can happen. If you are not properly trained in using restraints, you could cause serious injury to yourself or someone fighting you from being restrained. Then there's the legal aspects of a "citizen's arrest". Unless you're in the right, there may be criminal and/or civil violations on your part. This may result in monetary loss as well as encarceration on your part. Leave the arresting to LEO.

    Hope I've answered your question. Keep in mind that I AM NOT A LAWYER. THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE AND SHOULD NOT BE CONSTRUED TO BE LEGAL ADVICE. IF YOU WANT LEGAL ADVICE, CONSULT A COMPETENT ATTORNEY IN YOUR AREA.



    gf
    "A few well placed shots with a .22LR is a lot better than a bunch of solid misses with a .44 mag!" Glock Armorer, NRA Chief RSO, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Muzzleloading Rifle, Muzzleloading Shotgun, and Home Firearm Safety Training Counselor

  5. #5
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    Arrow Dude, if you want to be a cop, go to academy.

    Honestly, there are several bad choices in your scenario, starting with when you got dressed. Seriously.

    If you woke up that morning, strapped on a sidearm, and finished the ensemble off with handcuffs (metal, zip-tie, whatever), you are just asking to be jammed up in court. Heaven forbid you actually encounter a situation where you are forced to defend your life with your firearm, the DA is going to have a good time turning you into a vigilante, cop-wanna-be running around with a gun and handcuffs. To top off that outfit, one only needs one of those Conceal Carry badges that we have discussed on other threads. This would look REALLY BAD to the average jury.

    If your first reaction to some guy yelling at you and/or looking mean is to draw your firearm, you need some more class time from an accredited trainer, and maybe some time for personal reflection on exactly why you are carrying a weapon. If you are a healthy male, a good rule of thumb is to draw only when confronted by someone with a potentially dangerous weapon and/or multiple assailants who are verbally threatening you. Of course, every incident is different, but there is a life afterward that must be considered. If you start brandishing a firearm without cause (a felony in most places), you WILL lose your permit. I would hate to see you defenseless later just because you playing "big man" with a gun. Use it to protect your LIFE, not your pride.

    Finally, let me share with you one of the biggest surprises that I learned when I became a police officer: The minute you put your hands on the guy, she will change her mind and start jumping you. Honestly, 90% of the domestics shake out that way. You arrive, they are fighting, he has beat the crap out of her, you start to cuff him, and she goes berserk. "Where you taking my man?"


    If I was in the same situation, and she started screaming for help, then I would step in, but leave the concealed weapon concealed. Hopefully you will have some of your friends step in as well. One person will, very quietly, call the police. The others will step in with you. If any of your friends are women, let them go talk to her. You and the boys go talk to him. Soothe him, comfort him, agree with him about what b&%$#@*! women are, and when he wants to go after her, you all gently restrain him like he was your drunk buddy and say" No, man. It's not worth it." Rinse and repeat until the cops arrive. If you do not have any women around, LEAVE THAT WOMAN ALONE. If another man goes to try to help her out, it will simply set the guy off. Up until the police arrive, you want this scum bag believing that he is your best friend.

    If you stop the assault in progress, you have done a good deed. Do not try to "hold" someone for the police.

    YMMV, just my .02
    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." Thomas Jefferson

  6. #6
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    Great responses.. That is the main reason I frequent this site..
    I'm especially happy with Mountaingoat61's response... For someone who does not have their permit yet, their headed in the right direction from the start..
    I am a little concerned (as others have posted) about Aresye.. sounds like they really want to be a cop, without going through all the BS of the academy, and training, and having to be supervised, etc..
    The take away from this thread so far (IMHO) "Use it to protect your LIFE, not your pride."
    This was added to my list of quotes next to Jefferson and Franklin... Pretty good company!!

    Gulf Coast, Floriduh
    Sccy is the limit

  7. #7
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    I would not draw my firearm in this scenario. You did not mention any instance of "deadly force" in the situation.

  8. #8
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    I wouldn't have drawn either. Just get 911 on the horn and be a good witness, unless the guy starts to hurt the lady. In the end, an officer is going to come, arrest him and he will be charged with assault, battery, false imprisonment, and possibly kidnapping/abduction.
    Gun control: Forcing a 95lb woman to fist fight a 300lb rapist

  9. #9
    theicemanmpls is offline Banned
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    WTF are you drawing down on the wife beating piss ant? Want to go to jail? You are not a law enforcement officer. CCW does not make you one. All LEO's will tell you that domestic violence can turn deadly quickly. Drawing your firearm could turn things very ugly very fast. Training for the ccw is needed.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aresye View Post
    Here's the scenario:

    You're at a friend's house, celebrating his birthday. You're currently carrying, and therefore only drinking water and soda. Nobody else knows you're carrying, and when asked why you're not drinking, you respond with the fact that you are the driver.

    Fast forward a couple hours. Party's dying down, so you and your friend decide to leave and head back home. As you're both leaving the house, you hear a domestic disturbance next door that's pretty heated. A woman storms out of the house in a hurried fashion, followed by the husband. He grabs her arm, while yelling at her to get back in the house. She tries to free her arm, but can't. The man wrenches her arm in a painful way, attempting to drag her back into the house.

    Seeing both of you next door, watching the event, the woman screams for help. You tell your buddy to call 911, as you draw your concealed firearm. You tell the man very sternly to let her go, and to back away. The man complies, but now what?

    I'm not advocating that CCW holders should have powers to arrest, but what would you do in the above situation after the man backs away? For this reason, I think carrying a simple pair of zip tie cuffs could do a lot of help. You could order the man to the ground, and have your friend secure his hands. There's a lot of what ifs, but the main thing I think is important is putting your gun away, so it's not out when the police arrive. You could then have the man sit while you and your friend keep eye on him.

    What kind of legalities would there be regarding this situation? I think zip tie cuffs are great. They're small, can be purchased or made easily, and are ideal for securing a person temporarily. We use them in the military all the time.

    Then of course come the what ifs, like:
    -What if you're alone?
    -What if the person tries to escape?
    -What will the police think when they get there?

    Looking for some people's opinions and/or advice, if they've been in a similar situation.
    You have no right or reason to draw your weapon. You are not a LEO. Call 911. Bang on his door to interrupt the assault.

    But from the description of events, a gun is not yet needed.

    The laws on citizen's arrest vary from state to state. Some crimes are excluded and a private citizen is not allowed to make an arrest, such as in Kansas a traffic violation is not a crime that a private citizen is allowed to make an arrest.

    BTW, if you bang on his door, he might decide you are the threat and shoot you. Stick to teh p11 call.
    The people think the Second Amendment protects their rights;
    Government sees an obstacle to be over-come.
    NRA Life since 1966

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