Citizen's Arrest

[theicemanmpls]

He could get one of them consealed carry badges. lol and plastic ties, for the "what if"

[mackdaddy1911a1]

I would not draw my firearm in this scenario. You did not mention any instance of "deadly force" in the situation. Yeah the guy grabbed her, yeah, she cried for help, but I did not read anywhere that the guy had a knife, club, gun, etc. It's not a very good situation to be in. You already have a friend calling 911, which is a good thing. Next move would be to seperate the lady from the alleged perp. Notice I used the word "alleged". The reason I used the term is that you don't know what went on prior to the lady running outside and screaming for help. It could very well be that the guy found out she was messing around on him and threatened to leave. At that point, maybe the lady assaulted the man possibly kicking him someplace sensitive or maybe even using some type of deadly instrument (like a firearm or knife). It's possible that the guy disarmed her and she attempted to get away by running out the door yelling for help. I'm in no way condoning domestic violence. I'm putting the "what if's" out there so others would think before acting. As a firearms instructor, it's my duty to educate my students on the legalities of using their firearms. Part of this would involve talking through scenarios as you described. My advice is NEVER draw your firearm in defense of others unless you're SURE (be it "positively", "absolutely", 99%, etc) of what the situation is AND you are willing to face the consequences of your actions. You will most likey be arrested, or at minimum detained. You may spend some time in jail. You most likely will spend a lot of money on legal fees (contrary to popular belief, I woudn't bother with services like "Prepaid Legal". Think about it, if you're a working professional earning a certain rate of pay for your services, would you really want to be making less money per hour and still put out your 100%? I'm not slamming the service, just speaking from persona experience.)

Once you get the two parties isolated and everyone is "safe", wait for the police. It's their job to investigate and question both parties to figure out what happened. You may want to have your photo ID AND carry permit ready to present to arriving officers. Domestic violence calls are HUGE wild card for LEO. They never know what knd of mess they're walking into. It could be a simple argument between two parties, or it could be a large family duking it out. They don't know if anyone is armed or any other potential dangers. It's best to let the LEO do their jobs when they arrive and cooperate the best way you can. By being a good witness, you could provide valuable information to LEO.

As for physically restrining anyone, DON'T DO IT! We've discussed the matter on other threads. Anytime an ordinary citizen attempts to "arrest" another citizen, many bad things can happen. If you are not properly trained in using restraints, you could cause serious injury to yourself or someone fighting you from being restrained. Then there's the legal aspects of a "citizen's arrest". Unless you're in the right, there may be criminal and/or civil violations on your part. This may result in monetary loss as well as encarceration on your part. Leave the arresting to LEO.

Hope I've answered your question. Keep in mind that I AM NOT A LAWYER. THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE AND SHOULD NOT BE CONSTRUED TO BE LEGAL ADVICE. IF YOU WANT LEGAL ADVICE, CONSULT A COMPETENT ATTORNEY IN YOUR AREA.



gf

I for one am pleased that we have instructors on this site with good sound advise.. I believe that unless your or someone elses life is in imminate danger that you should NEVER draw your fire arm or even display it for any reason unless the situation dictates it's use. Displaying your weapon is the same as Brandishing it in the eyes of the law. I know of a guy who simply showed his gun to anouther driver who was being very aggressive and guess who went to jail. He got out of it but lost his Concealed carry permit. Almost his freedom...simply for "BRANDISHING" ..not pointing it or aiming it at the guy just holding it up so he could see it. Good luck and God bless

[Aresye]

*Gets up after rolling to put the flames out.*

I did take the time to read all of your posts, and I think I didn't clarify the situation that well. First off, I'm familiar with the laws of Florida, which state that, you can basically put yourself in the other person's shoes. Maybe I should have added him hitting her very hard, as I was trying to convey the worst case of domestic violence, without a weapon. I was trying to portray the idea that, had you not acted immediately, she would be seriously hurt. After re-reading my post, I will admit the situation seemed not to carry as much of a dire threat than when I was thinking it up in my head, and thus pulling your gun would have been a very bad choice. That I completely agree.

I also realize that most of you just see me as a wannabe cop, or vigilante. Carrying around cuffs, being quick to draw, etc. Perhaps I should have added in, "Would you use restraints if you were trained to use them?" Obviously I would not recommend someone untrained in close-quarters defense and restraining techniques to even consider the possibility. Once again, I think I failed to convey that in my post. I myself have about 4 years active duty military service. Have been trained, and continue to train in areas of CQD, restraining techniques, ROE, deadly force, and combative survivor recovery. When we get the person to the ground, we cuff them, and take them with us. Then again, in the situation I posted, my buddy isn't at my side, keeping an M4 pointed at the aggressor, while I move in to restrain him. I guess some military training, however good it may be, doesn't carry over very well to the CCW aspect of life.

Also, for the people who posted sarcastic remarks. Either offer some decent advice (without sarcasm), or perhaps ask questions for further clarification. I apologize for not being as clear as I intended in my first post, but choosing to insult a person's character and/or training, without knowing both who they are, and what their training is, shows a lack of maturity, and/or laziness on their part.

[alan93]

As exemplary as your military training may be, it was for the military, not enforcing civilian law.

If you would like to post the Florida laws that you seem to paraphrase so effortlessly that support your view, please do.

[CaptAmerica]

After reading through all of this I want to toss in my 2 cents worth;

I am glad to see the OP clarified a few things.

I also live in Florida and I am also ex-military so I want to put myself in this situation.
My first answer is no, I would NOT pull a gun in this situation. Even if he had slapped her around. What I would do is send the buddy to call 911 while I started yelling at the guy to back off. Trying to get him to turn his attention towards me.
One of three things will happen; he will ignore me, he will back off or he will come after me. IF he starts coming after me in a threatening manor, THEN I MAY clear leather, but only once he has threatened me. If he ignores me I still wont and cant pull a gun just because they are fighting. Not until her life is at risk.

Now as for restraints; no way! Even if I had some kind of training. That would only set me up in the eyes of the court to look like I wanted trouble. I don't want to answer why I was carrying around restraints.
If I have to pull my gun then I have all the restraint I need in my hand. He has a choice once I am deffending my self; stand down, run away or be shot. My role is to defend myself or others, not to detain any one. If he wants to run, let him run. Once LEO shows up and gets the information he wont be able to out run their radios.

[inspector710]

You don't know enough of the situation. Why would you draw on an apparently unarmed man?? You can't and expect to keep your LTCF.

[IWLAFART]

I have read a lot of posts on a few gun forums and the more I read the more concerned I get. With some of the comments I feel that some should not be issued a CCW.

[Aresye]

Thanks CaptAmerica for a good post. It seems that the general consensus is that even with the proper training, the addition of carrying any type of restraint, will likely do more harm than the slight advantage it may have in the securing of a dangerous individual.

Alan: FL law states that deadly force is justified to protect yourself if you are in danger of being killed or seriously hurt. It also carries on to state that you may use lethal force to protect someone else from death or serious injury, if you would use deadly force in their position. Lethal force is also justifiable in the prevention of a forcible felony in progress, such as armed robbery, rape, aggravated assault or battery, home intrusion robbery, and many more. The law also states that under these conditions if the use of force, including lethal force, is justified, then the person who acted has immunity to arrest and prosecution. That doesn't mean I'm going to be walking around, drawing my gun at every possible forcible felony I may witness. I personally hope to never have to draw my gun at someone, and I'm not trying to contradict myself here. Looking back at my first post, it definitely would have been a bad idea to draw. In my second post, I think it would depend on how far it escalates, and your attempts at deescalating the situation. If the guy eventually starts throwing some very dangerous blows, and seems to be in an uncontrollable rage, or brandishes a weapon or knife, that would certainly warrant the use of justifiable defense on her part.

IWLAFART: I am assuming your post is directed towards me, and what my so called actions would have been in this scenario I have given. While you have a good reason to believe that based on my earlier version of the situation, I think you need to look at some of the other comments, and topics as well. People having negligent discharges, for example. Was this recent movie theater shooting involving a licensed CCW holder? The types of people you need to be watchful for, are the ones who are quick to accuse, and show a lack of care and professionalism on their part. If they're careless when it comes to weapon safety, like some of the horror stories involving so called, "accidental discharges," then that same person may eventually end up like the guy in the movie theater, and "accidentally" shoot somebody from carelessness (based on the last update I read). Are you more worried about me, after I've already admitted my actions would have been rash, and learned thanks you some other people's advice, or would you be more worried about the person who can't even spell or punctuate correctly on a message board, that carries that same half-assed attitude into carrying a deadly weapon?

Learning. It's a great thing, isn't it?

[CaptAmerica]

Aresye, I may or may not agree with everything you said, but I respect the hell out of anyone who can come back from being slammed and picked on, say he was wrong and learned a lesson, and hold his head up.
You're right, learning is a great thing.
The character of a man is not the mistakes he makes, it is what he chooses to do with himself after the mistake has been made.

[wjh2657]

The laws are way too nebulous on the issue of "citizen's arrest" to get involved. Yes , in Tennessee you theoretically can make an arrest. However the laws are very hazy as to what you actually can do in the "arrest." The court will probably go back to the continuum of force contained in the use of force laws. You can't restrain, I don't believe you can even put hands on the individual and for sure you can't use your gun, not even just to show it.

I hope you are 7 ft tall and weigh 300 pounds of solid muscle and can scare the liviing bejeebies out of the guy because otherwise there is not a whole lot you can do to hold him legally. Unless you are Arnold I would just use the phone and call the real cops.