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Private Security Officer Asks To See Your Permit

This is a discussion on Private Security Officer Asks To See Your Permit within the Concealed Carry Discussion forums, part of the Main Category category; Actually, if you are on private property that he has been hired to patroll and protect, he has all the ...

  1. #11
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    Actually, if you are on private property that he has been hired to patroll and protect, he has all the authority he needs to detain you if you are acting in an unruly or suspicious manner. Dont ever fool yourself into thinking diffrent. And I guarantee the local LEOs will back him up. Why else would he be there?
    In the situation outlined in the OP and the LEOs had already been called even if he decided not to detain you he would have all the info including auto description and tag number to turn over to the police. Resulting in further confusion and problems when you are apprehended and investigated. All of which could be avoided by waiting for the police and cooperating completly on the spot. Of course, If you dont agree, go for it and leave. See how that works out for you.

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    I would not show any ID of any type, would not wait for the police (the reason of them being summoned was not stated), and I would bit him good night and leave. Furthermore, I don't believe I would have answered in the affirmative to the question of whether or not I was armed.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twodollarpistol View Post
    Actually, if you are on private property that he has been hired to patroll and protect, he has all the authority he needs to detain you if you are acting in an unruly or suspicious manner. Dont ever fool yourself into thinking diffrent. And I guarantee the local LEOs will back him up. Why else would he be there?
    In the situation outlined in the OP and the LEOs had already been called even if he decided not to detain you he would have all the info including auto description and tag number to turn over to the police. Resulting in further confusion and problems when you are apprehended and investigated. All of which could be avoided by waiting for the police and cooperating completly on the spot. Of course, If you dont agree, go for it and leave. See how that works out for you.
    In the state of North Carolina a private contract security officer only has the right to detain if they see a felony being enacted, or suspect a felony is about to happen. Citizens Arrest is not authorized in this state, so therefore security officers cannot arrest either. Their ONLY purpose by state law is to OBSERVE, DETECT, & REPORT, nothing more...
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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twodollarpistol View Post
    Actually, if you are on private property that he has been hired to patroll and protect, he has all the authority he needs to detain you if you are acting in an unruly or suspicious manner.
    In Colorado, where this incident took place, a merchant guard only has citizen's arrest authority. He can detain you only if he witnesses you commit a crime. He has no legal authority to detain you for the purposes of investigation (IOW if he didn’t actually witness you commit the crime he has no authority to stop you and question you about the crime)

    Quote Originally Posted by Twodollarpistol View Post
    In the situation outlined in the OP and the LEOs had already been called even if he decided not to detain you he would have all the info including auto description and tag number to turn over to the police.
    In the real incident this scenario was drawn from the guard had no way of knowing which car the couple were headed to because he stopped them before they got to it, ergo no plate number to give to the police. Also having worked for this particular company while I was in college (which is how I know about this incident) I know that they train their guards to tell people the police have already been notified whether they have or not. While I know that CSPD was contacted and did respond it is unlikely that they had already been called at the time the guard made contact.


    Quote Originally Posted by Twodollarpistol View Post
    If you dont agree, go for it and leave. See how that works out for you.
    This situation "worked out" by the guard being dismissed from that site for overstepping his bounds the next day.
    See, it's mumbo jumbo like that and skinny little lizards like you thinking they the last dragon that gives Kung Fu a bad name.
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  5. #15
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    What if~~ The security guard is also a LEO (off duty) working a part-time job, which I would guess is a fairly common occurrence (I met one of our local sheriff's deputies last Christmas in one of our local department stores working security).
    "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." -Thomas Jefferson

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    Quote Originally Posted by davcolburn View Post
    What if~~ The security guard is also a LEO (off duty) working a part-time job, which I would guess is a fairly common occurrence
    Until he identifies himself as an LEO and presents credentials I am not obligated to give him any more cooperation than I would a security guard.
    See, it's mumbo jumbo like that and skinny little lizards like you thinking they the last dragon that gives Kung Fu a bad name.
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    Quote Originally Posted by davcolburn View Post
    What if~~ The security guard is also a LEO (off duty) working a part-time job, which I would guess is a fairly common occurrence (I met one of our local sheriff's deputies last Christmas in one of our local department stores working security).
    If he is an off duty cop, he would be carrying his duty badge. And down here, likely in uniform of his Dept. He still wouldn't see the permit till the on duty cops showed up if he wasn't. There are plenty of wannabe cops out there including ones with "Police", "FBI", "CPB", "SWAT" t-shirts and phoney badges. Just like if you get stopped at night by an unmarked car/pickup, you have the right to go to a well lit place and have a marked patrol unit arrive. And that comes direct from the local LEOs.

    Our bank now has an off duty officer for security. He is in uniform and has his car with him any time he is there. Our bank was the victim of an attempted armoured car robbery. The AC guards shot both subjects and put a fatal shot into the getaway driver.

    Police: Would-Be Robber Killed In Shootout - Miami News Story - WPLG Miami

  8. #18
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    It's pretty universal that private security has only the same powers as a private citizen, namely: Observe, Record, Report, and only Confront or Detain if they have direct knowledge of a felony by the person they accost. This includes the off-duty police officer moonlighting as a security guard. The only legal difference between a civilian who passed the 6 hour video course and an off-duty cop moonlighting is the off-duty cop is more likely to know the color of the day when they call 911 with their badge number and get the police there all the sooner.

    As to the idea that they have the authority to detain anyone on the private property they are assigned to secure, as seen in the real life scenario from the OP, just accosting with no attempt to arrest got the guard reassigned. What private security guards do have the absolute power to do is to demand you take your crap and get off the property now, now, now.

    Within reason. It can't be for a discriminatory reason. There was a case in the Carolinas of a lesbian couple holding hands outside and sharing a peck on the lips and some security guard lost his nut and demanded they take their unacceptable behaviour and leave, backed up by his supervisor. They both, along with the security company and the mall management company got excoriated in the media and had to back pedal like mad.

    WRT the OP's scenario, I'll further assume that the pair are going to her car and he's gonna take her keys when they get there and drive her home, but that she retains the keys to her own car.

    Now, the rent-a-cop accosts me, I simple state, "She's too drunk to drive. I'm driving her home. Thank you for your concern." Very calmly and mater of factly.

    Idiot ***** says I have a gun and the rent-a-cop asks for confirmation, I tell him again, "Thank you for your concern. Do not interfere." To her, I say, "We're going to your car. You have the keys. You're three sheets to the wind. Assuming you manage to get the cops here, how do you imagine you're going to get me in more trouble than yourself?"

    Now, the rent-a-cop presses for confirmation on my firearm status as well as my permit status, I simply reiterate, "Thank you for your concern. Do not interfere. We are leaving." I would pack her off into the passenger's side of the car, take the keys, get in the driver's side, and egress the parking structure, paying the tab on the way out if necessary.

    Now, in the case of Barney fife turning out to have his single bullet in his gun and not his pocket, if the rent-a-cop at any time gets belligerent or draws his sidearm on me, it becomes just like any other civilian on civilian violence, and despite any other claims to the contrary, all of my tactics at that point are to insure that I go home alive that night.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CathyInBlue View Post
    It's pretty universal that private security has only the same powers as a private citizen, namely: Observe, Record, Report, and only Confront or Detain if they have direct knowledge of a felony by the person they accost.
    ....
    Now, in the case of Barney fife turning out to have his single bullet in his gun and not his pocket, if the rent-a-cop at any time gets belligerent or draws his sidearm on me, it becomes just like any other civilian on civilian violence, and despite any other claims to the contrary, all of my tactics at that point are to insure that I go home alive that night.
    And because they don't have any more powers than a citizen, many are not armed. Too much risk for many companies of a Barney Fife type.

  10. #20
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    The situation has been pretty well covered..

    I say, it's time to hang out with a different lady friend.. This one will only get you into more, and probably worse, trouble in the future!!

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