Concealed Carry Permit for law-abiding Expatriate American Citizen

[OC4me]

Hi Everyone,

First time poster here. I have a highly unusual situation that prevents me from exercising my Second Amendment Rights.

I am a law-abiding American Citizen who lives the majority of the year in Udonthani, Thailand with my wife and daughter and would very much like to be able to carry when back in the States on business or while visiting friends and family.

Neither my home state of birth, Michigan, nor my adopted state of Florida (surprisingly) will issue concealed carry permits to non-U.S. Resident American Citizens (otherwise known as an expatriate Citizen). They will also not honor non-resident permits issued by other states that may be held by expatriate Citizens for the very same U.S. Residency requirements (sounds confusing I know, but one must be a U.S. resident in order to be eligible for a Florida non-resident permit...go figure!). Michigan is even worse in that it honors only permits issued by a home state (meaning one must physically reside there). Yes it sucks indeed to be a non-Resident American. Having a permanent domicile in Florida doesn't matter either because I physically reside overseas. I have been in contact with the Florida legislators and have asked them to remove the U.S. residency requirement for U.S. citizens, but have made no progress. I'm sure to face the same difficulties in Michigan, not to mention many other States.

However, because I believe that National Reciprocity will be passed sooner or later, I might be legal if I manage to get a carry permit from just one single state and so I'm researching which, if any state, I might be able to get a non-resident carry permit from. Fortunately the National Reciprocity Act (in its current form) doesn't (yet) have a requirement that a U.S. Citizen actually reside in the United States (so I'm keeping my fingers crossed).

So far I'm aware that Arizona, Florida, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Maine, Minnesota, Nevada, North Dakota, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Texas, Utah, Virginia and Washington issue permits to non-residents.

As discussed earlier, I've already eliminated Florida. Now I need help from this forum in narrowing down my search further.

As you might imagine, I can't really show up in person to apply for a permit (so application by mail, must be ok, not in person), likewise I need to find a state that has very lax requirements for training (i.e. no training requirement or they accept training from Michigan or Florida, which I could take during my next visit home). Ditto for fingerprints (i.e. no requirement or will accept fingerprint cards taken out-of-state).

Getting a permit, while living overseas is really far harder than it might seem, but as they say "impossible is seldom tried".

Wish me luck and help out with advice if you can, thanks!

[civilian75]

Check out Utah. Hard as I've tried, I have not been able to find any residency requirements. The only catch: you must take a Weapon Familiarity Certification class with a Utah BCI certified instructor. Found four BFI Certified Instructors in the Sunshine State

More links:
APPLICATION FOR CONCEALED FIREARM PERMIT
Utah Department of Public Safety

[G50AE]

South Carolina only issues non-resident permits to those that hold real property within the state. Now that can be a tract of land in the middle of nowhere, but you have to be paying state proerty tax to get a non-resident permit.

[OC4me]

I think Utah may be out as they are working on legislation that will require non-residents to first have a permit from their home state. Also taking a Utah class may be a bit of a problem as time is limited while visiting the States, scheduling might be a problem and then driving might be an issue as we will depend on relatives for transportation when visiting.

Ok, I'm scratching South Carolina off the list as I don't own property down there. I've also removed Iowa because I found out they don't issue to Non-US. Residents (same problem as Florida) and Pennsylvania (requires a valid license from home-state).

Edited after even more research: Indiana won't issue to non-U.S. residents, Iowa won't issue to non-U.S. residents, Nevada requires personal appearance, Oregon issues only to non-residents of neighboring States, Rhode Island requires valid permit from home state, Texas requires ID from home state, Virginia requires local submission of fingerprint card, and Washington requires valid state driver's license or ID card.

Thanks everybody, please keep the advice on individual states coming, thanks!

Here are the remaining state possibilities: Arizona(?), Idaho, Maine, Minnesota, North Dakota and Utah(???).

Idaho looks promising at first glance (seem very liberal about acceptable training certificates) but they require a valid Driver's License or State ID card. I'm not even sure that my Florida Driver's License remains valid since I'm no longer a resident of Florida. I'll have to check on that. Does anyone know if Idaho will issue permits by mail? I could not apply in person.

Idaho seems like it may require state-issued ID, if confirmed I will cross that state off.
Minnesota (I haven't researched yet)
North Dakota might require local fingerprinting, if confirmed I will cross that state off.
Maine, still need to research.

Here are the constraints:

- Non-U.S. Resident American Citizens are eligible.
- Ok to apply for permit by mail.
- Will accept training certificate taken out-of-state.
- Will accept fingerprints taken out-of-state.
- Don't require valid home-state permit as condition
- Don't require property ownership in the state.
- Don't require a valid (current) State-Issued Driver's License or State Issued ID card.

So my list of potential states is getting kind of small. I might have to take another look at Utah again. It will not be easy to hook up with a Utah-approved training class but at least it is an option. Arizona might work, but I've seen conflicting references to a requirement for in-state training (bad for me) vs. acceptance of an out-of-state hunters education certificate (good for me) so I don't know which Arizona will accept. Somebody please help clarify Arizona law, thanks!

[G50AE]

Ok, I'm scratching South Carolina off the list as I don't own property down there.

I have often wondered why this requirement was in place. It should not be, IMHO.

[wyobud]

South Dakota just had a court ruling " that residents that are not us-citizen" may apply and if pass all requirements, be given a CCW permit.
Not for sure if S.D. issues a non-resident CCW though.

[wyobud]

OC4me
Keep us up on the Utah permit thing. I have a Wyoming permit, but travel to Nevada to see the kids and grandkids. Nevada does not recoginize the Wyoming permit. Been thinking of getting a Utah non-resident to be legal in Nevada, but don't have access to a Utah BCI training course.
However you would think that a Wyoming Permit would satisfy the needs since both Wy. and Utah have resiprosity??????

[Wwwildthing]

Arizona requires that you are "...a resident of this state or a United States citizen".

[442js]

OC4me
Keep us up on the Utah permit thing. I have a Wyoming permit, but travel to Nevada to see the kids and grandkids. Nevada does not recoginize the Wyoming permit. Been thinking of getting a Utah non-resident to be legal in Nevada, but don't have access to a Utah BCI training course.
However you would think that a Wyoming Permit would satisfy the needs since both Wy. and Utah have resiprosity??????

Nevada no longer accepts Utah permits. If you want to carry in Nevada, you probably should get a Nevada permit or one of the few states that Nevada will accept.

[Raidenko]

Arizona requires in state 8 hr class but I have heard they are working to change that since they are now also a Constitutional Carry state