Common Sense, reasonable regulation, etc...

[NavyLCDR]

Can you prove that they're safer without training?

I can prove that they have less government infringement upon their rights.

[Lakeland Man]

I will state again that this is my opinion. I understand that some of you disagree with me. I respect that you have a differing opinion. However, I am just as entitled to mine as you are to yours.

I do carry. I have plenty of training. I do not think its smart to allow everyone to own and/or carry a handgun. I wouldn't give a gun to a 16 year old. 100 years ago, i would think differently. However, this isn't 100 years ago. Times are very different today. I have seen many 16 year olds who couldn't make a mature decision if it were handed to them on a plate. I can also say the same about some 26, 36, and 46 year olds I've met.

For what it is worth, if you want to walk down the street carrying a M203 grenade launcher, go for it.

[NavyLCDR]

I will state again that this is my opinion. I understand that some of you disagree with me. I respect that you have a differing opinion. However, I am just as entitled to mine as you are to yours.

And I agree. But if you didn't want discussion, why did you post it?

[Lakeland Man]

I can prove that they have less government infringement upon their rights.

Thats not what I asked you.

[Lakeland Man]

And I agree. But if you didn't want discussion, why did you post it?

Assumption Alert!

I love a good discussion. However, I want to keep stating that it opinion. It may or may not be backed up by anything more than my personal experiences. I'm not going to try and quote statistics here. I have no desire to spend the time needed to google all the charts, graphs, and statistics.

You are absolutely free to challenge my statements. I'm also free to rebut your challenges. That's what debate is all about.

[B2Tall]

Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, California, Georgia, Indiana, Mississippi, Pennsylvania, South Dakota, Vermont, Washington, Wyoming And others I am sure Require no training what so ever before issuing a permit.

No blood in the streets that I am aware of

CA does require training for a CC permit. This very website points that out in their state-by-state list of requirements. Also, their OC is for unloaded weapons only. Might as well be carrying a paperweight. We can scratch Cali off your list.

Of the other 11 states you listed as requiring no training, 8 of them are worse than the average when it comes to the stats that NavyLT posted concerning firearm deaths. Some of them are far worse than average. Those are the same stats I used in another thread a while back.

Thanks LT. I appreciate the assist.

[B2Tall]

After further review......

NavyLT chipped in with another seven states where apparently no training is required for one form of carry or another. It seems that all seven on his list are worse than average when looking at LT's own stats. That makes 15 out of 18 states that Treo and LT listed that are worse than average when it comes to firearm deaths.

That's 80%! Yikes! Looks like there is a bit of blood in the streets in those states!

It's not going quite like you planned, is it boys?? Next time look before you leap.....otherwise the Brady campaign might try to hire you.

[Lakeland Man]

Lets see if this works.

I found this thread while I was browsing tonight.

untrained teenager shoots girlfriend

Now I will stipulate that this is only 1 incident, but it DOES illustrate my point. This kid didn't appear to be a gang banger or criminal. Just an untrained 16 year old who had no business with a firearm.

[Treo]

Assumption Alert!

I love a good discussion. However, I want to keep stating that it opinion. It may or may not be backed up by anything more than my personal experiences. I'm not going to try and quote statistics here. I have no desire to spend the time needed to google all the charts, graphs, and statistics.

You are absolutely free to challenge my statements. I'm also free to rebut your challenges. That's what debate is all about.

I don't disagree that real training is desirable, I just don't want to put the requirement in the hands of the state. I Colorado I can openly carry a firearm w/ no training, no permit and no fee be if I want to put on a jacket I have to take a class and pay a fee.

The fact is that there aren't high numbers of legal carriers out there screwing the pooch. If there were you'd see states moving away from shall issue instead of toward permitless. This holds trun in states that require training and those that don't.

[NavyLCDR]

Thanks LT. I appreciate the assist.

First, California does not require training for a CCW at the state level.

Prove that those stats have anything to do with training. And let's analyze this "effect" that you speak of...

Let's go with Louisiana that DOES require training for a CCW, but allows unlicensed open carry without training. Death rate of 20 per 100,000 due to ANYTHING related to firearms - that means accidents AND CRIME.

Then let's pick.... hell, Hawaii with 3 gun deaths per 100,000.

So. the chances are 17 in 100,000 less of me getting killed by a gun in Hawaii than Louisiana. That is a decrease of .017%. I have a .017% less chance of getting killed with a gun in Hawaii than in Louisiana! AND.... Louisiana even requires training for their CCW permit!

If we pick Alaska which has NO training required at all, and a HUGE percentage of the population that owns guns... my difference between Alaska and Hawaii becomes .015% less chance of getting killed by a gun in Hawaii than Alaska.

Huge difference, eh? AND that is if you say that the ENTIRE difference in gun related deaths can be accounted for by training. That does not account for the difference in percentage of the population that actually owns guns, let alone carries them, nor the crime rate.

So, yeah, let's mandate training for everyone who wants to carry a gun to make that huge .015% difference. You sold me.... NOT.

Hell, if you believe this:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...ownership.html

57.8% of households in Alaska have firearms, whereas only 8.7% of households in Hawaii have firearms. So, we have 49% percentage MORE firearms ownership in Alaska, with NO TRAINING REQUIRED and yet we only have a .015% rise in firearm deaths?