Flip 'Em The Bird And Die Like A Viking

[Treo]

Flip 'Em The Bird And Die Like A Viking

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The No-Win Scenario

I occasionally get taken to task over my sig line, usually by someone who doesn’t understand it or thinks it's a “random tough guy quote” or that I’m looking to piss off road ragers.

It actually came from the above article it was also the last post I ever made on the OLD THR (ironic huh?)

Anyway the linked article here is where the line came from. I don’t want to get too much into it because the author (Gabe Suarez) is far more articulate than I am. I’ll just say that in my mind there is absolutely no good reason for me to comply w/ the commands of the felon. In the scenario posited in the article, win lose or draw my wallet never would have come out of my pocket because I would have gone straight for my gun. (I’m not trying to be a bad ass I know me).

So, here’s the article give it some thought.

FWIW here's the .org thread http://www.thehighroad.org/showthrea...+viking&page=2
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[FloridaBlue]

Second link is showing 404 btw.

[B2Tall]

Interesting reading but the excercise has one massive flaw - it assumes that armed robbers always shoot their victims. This is about as far from the truth as it gets.

I brought this up in a previous thread a while back - according to official FBI stats, their latest figures (from a couple of years ago) listed approx 400,000 robberies involving a gun. 2000 people were murdered in these robberies. That's one-half of one percent. In 99.5% of the armed robberies, nobody was killed. (Note: on one hand the figures don't include victims who were injured but not killed. On the other hand there were undoubtedly more than one victim in some of these robberies, making the total number of victims more than 400,000. In any case the vast majority of armed robbery victims walked away unscathed).

The excercise has the BGs with weapons drawn and "having the drop" on the victim. As shown, trying to open fire on the BGs in this situation is nearly suicidal. Instead of that 1/2 of 1% chance of being killed, it's now been bumped up to nearly 100%. They left out another option - carefully and calmly complying with the demands of the robbers and in all probability walking away. I know that's not the badass, internet Rambo macho-man response that a handful on these boards would come up with but it's a helluva lot better than "dying like a Viking", or "dying on a pile of warm brass", yada yada yada.

I'm only going to open fire if I feel I have a distinct advantage in terms of suprise or if my assailant has already started firing. In that case I have nothing to lose, otherwise I'll go with the 99.5% chance of survival by handing over my wallet or valuables. And don't think that just because you've put a couple of slugs into the BG that the threat is over. I recently read a law enforcement magazine where a number of actual occurences were analyzed. In several of these instances the BG was mortally wounded but still had enough gas in the tank to return fire and kill or wound the LEOs on the other end of the encounter.

[Treo]

The excercise has the BGs with weapons drawn and "having the drop" on the victim. As shown, trying to open fire on the BGs in this situation is nearly suicidal. Instead of that 1/2 of 1% chance of being killed, it's now been bumped up to nearly 100%. They left out another option - carefully and calmly complying with the demands of the robbers and in all probability walking away. I know that's not the badass, internet Rambo macho-man response that a handful on these boards would come up with but it's a helluva lot better than "dying like a Viking", or "dying on a pile of warm brass", yada yada yada.

Did you catch the part of the article where it says the scenario was taken from real life? Also that the victim did comply and was murdered for his trouble?

[B2Tall]

Did you catch the part of the article where it says the scenario was taken from real life? Also that the victim did comply and was murdered for his trouble?

Yeah.

Did it occur to you that the victim was an unfortunate part of the 1/2 of 1%?? I didn't say that nobody gets killed. I only pointed out that very few people actually get killed in armed robberies considering how many there are. Is this the point in time where you tell me that the FBI stats are meaningless (or skewed, or bogus, etc.)???

[Treo]

Yeah. Is this the point in time where you tell me that the FBI stats are meaningless (or skewed, or bogus, etc.)???

No, this is the point where I tell you I'm going to fight period . I've been shot, I know what it feels like, it's not some big mystery. I'm not going to trust the good intentions of a bad guy w/ a gun I'm going to fight

[G50AE]

No, this is the point where I tell you I'm going to fight period . I've been shot, I know what it feels like, it's not some big mystery. I'm not going to trust the good intentions of a bad guy w/ a gun I'm going to fight

So whip out your CCW Badge and blast away.

[FN1910]

Interesting reading but the excercise has one massive flaw - it assumes that armed robbers always shoot their victims. This is about as far from the truth as it gets.

(At this point, the man Chip knew was shot dead.)

You are correct about the stats but in this exercise one victim was already dead so it could be assumed that they would not fit into the normal stats. Since they had already killed one person then I would expect that they would have no problems in killing a second person and probably would. Now it is an interesting scenario, although probably very rare, but does demonstrate what could happen. Unlike Indiana Jones pulling his gun out when faced with a no win situation you don't have that option here.

There are times such as the one in CT I believe where the two men killed the family and made the Mother drive to the ATM machine or something like that where you know that being killed is an distinct possibility and highly probable. The people on the highjacked planes on 9/11 were in such a mode. When all other options are considered and none seem to have much of a chance then I agree with the last option. Flip 'Em The Bird And Die Like A Viking. This makes me think of all the people that sit around and cry "If only someone had been carrying a gun they would not have had to sit there like sheeo and be executed". In the Viking lore they never died just sitting there crying about what they didn't have but made the best of what they did have. They went out fighting with anything and everything. That is what the line is all about. You don't give up because it is a no win situation but do your best with what you have. You may die but you at least die trying and may just get lucky.

[nogods]

Why would anyone waste time on meaningless hand gestures before drawing a weapon? Are the Bad guys going to be haunted by the Hollywood antics after they murder the victim?

[Treo]

So whip out your CCW Badge and blast away.

Nope just yell "Stop! I'm armed" then skin that smoke wagon and get to work