New CCW & something strange in Ohio

[martywinston]

Yesterday, I successfully completed my 12-hour required course and tomorrow I go to the Sheriff's Office (I had the paperwork already complete) to file my CCW application.

But there was something that came up in the course that I think is strange.

In Ohio, a magazine is considered part of a weapon. Without a CCW, an empty magazine on a car seat is a minor violation and a full magazine is, as I understand it, a felony - even if the gun is locked in a safe at home.

The flip side is that with a CCW, I can fill the back passenger seats with loaded, chambered, ready-to-fire weapons and no harm done.

I have a pal running for the state legislature; I think I'll have a word with him about ironing this out - heck, I should probably take him to the range.

[NavyLCDR]

Yesterday, I successfully completed my 12-hour required course and tomorrow I go to the Sheriff's Office (I had the paperwork already complete) to file my CCW application.

But there was something that came up in the course that I think is strange.

In Ohio, a magazine is considered part of a weapon. Without a CCW, an empty magazine on a car seat is a minor violation and a full magazine is, as I understand it, a felony - even if the gun is locked in a safe at home.

The flip side is that with a CCW, I can fill the back passenger seats with loaded, chambered, ready-to-fire weapons and no harm done.

I have a pal running for the state legislature; I think I'll have a word with him about ironing this out - heck, I should probably take him to the range.

Did you look the law up yourself?

There are three major sources of misinformation regarding firearms laws: one of them being CCW instructors. I won't mention LEO as being another one, because Deserteagle will call me on it. :-)

An empty magazine anywhere, CCW or not, is no violation of any law.
A loaded magazine is only a violation when it is inside a vehicle with the gun that will accept it ALSO IN THE VEHICLE. I am looking to see if it is a felony or misdemeanor. BRB with the actual statute.

Having a loaded magazine in the vehicle with a gun - if the gun is inaccessible such as in a case - is a misdemeanor, not a felonly.

Here's your real statute, I would suggest you read all of Ohio's firearms statutes, your CCW Instructor was obviously mistaken about this, so who knows what else they did not know:

Lawriter - ORC - 2923.16 Improperly handling firearms in a motor vehicle.

2923.16 Improperly handling firearms in a motor vehicle.
(A) No person shall knowingly discharge a firearm while in or on a motor vehicle.

(B) No person shall knowingly transport or have a loaded firearm in a motor vehicle in such a manner that the firearm is accessible to the operator or any passenger without leaving the vehicle.

(C) No person shall knowingly transport or have a firearm in a motor vehicle, unless the person may lawfully possess that firearm under applicable law of this state or the United States, the firearm is unloaded, and the firearm is carried in one of the following ways:

(1) In a closed package, box, or case;

(2) In a compartment that can be reached only by leaving the vehicle;

(3) In plain sight and secured in a rack or holder made for the purpose;

(I) Whoever violates this section is guilty of improperly handling firearms in a motor vehicle. Violation of division (A) of this section is a felony of the fourth degree. Violation of division (C) of this section is a misdemeanor of the fourth degree. A violation of division (D) of this section is a felony of the fifth degree or, if the loaded handgun is concealed on the person’s person, a felony of the fourth degree. Except as otherwise provided in this division, a violation of division (E)(1) or (2) of this section is a misdemeanor of the first degree, and, in addition to any other penalty or sanction imposed for the violation, the offender’s license or temporary emergency license to carry a concealed handgun shall be suspended pursuant to division (A)(2) of section 2923.128 of the Revised Code. If at the time of the stop of the offender for a traffic stop, for another law enforcement purpose, or for a purpose defined in section 5503.34 of the Revised Code that was the basis of the violation any law enforcement officer involved with the stop or the employee of the motor carrier enforcement unit who made the stop had actual knowledge of the offender’s status as a licensee, a violation of division (E)(1) or (2) of this section is a minor misdemeanor, and the offender’s license or temporary emergency license to carry a concealed handgun shall not be suspended pursuant to division (A)(2) of section 2923.128 of the Revised Code. A violation of division (E)(4) of this section is a felony of the fifth degree. A violation of division (E)(3) or (5) of this section is a misdemeanor of the first degree or, if the offender previously has been convicted of or pleaded guilty to a violation of division (E)(3) or (5) of this section, a felony of the fifth degree. In addition to any other penalty or sanction imposed for a misdemeanor violation of division (E)(3) or (5) of this section, the offender’s license or temporary emergency license to carry a concealed handgun shall be suspended pursuant to division (A)(2) of section 2923.128 of the Revised Code. A violation of division (B) of this section is
a felony of the fourth degree.

(5) “Unloaded” means any of the following:

(a) No ammunition is in the firearm in question, and no ammunition is loaded into a magazine or speed loader that may be used with the firearm in question and that is located anywhere within the vehicle in question, without regard to where ammunition otherwise is located within the vehicle in question. For the purposes of division (K)(5)(a) of this section, ammunition held in stripper-clips or in en-bloc clips is not considered ammunition that is loaded into a magazine or speed loader.

(b) With respect to a firearm employing a percussion cap, flintlock, or other obsolete ignition system, when the weapon is uncapped or when the priming charge is removed from the pan.

This is only part of the statute, read the whole statute yourself. However, notice that nowhere in the statute is a magazine declared to be a firearm or part of a firearm. What the law defines is that the firearm is loaded when there is a loaded magazine in the same vehicle as the firearm. It's a definition of what is loaded and unloaded, not a definition of what is a firearm or not a firearm.

Also, here is your definition of firearm in Ohio state law:
Lawriter - ORC - 2923.11 Weapons control definitions.

2923.11 Weapons control definitions.
As used in sections 2923.11 to 2923.24 of the Revised Code:

(A) “Deadly weapon” means any instrument, device, or thing capable of inflicting death, and designed or specially adapted for use as a weapon, or possessed, carried, or used as a weapon.

(B)(1) “Firearm” means any deadly weapon capable of expelling or propelling one or more projectiles by the action of an explosive or combustible propellant. “Firearm” includes an unloaded firearm, and any firearm that is inoperable but that can readily be rendered operable.

(2) When determining whether a firearm is capable of expelling or propelling one or more projectiles by the action of an explosive or combustible propellant, the trier of fact may rely upon circumstantial evidence, including, but not limited to, the representations and actions of the individual exercising control over the firearm.

(C) “Handgun” means any of the following:

(1) Any firearm that has a short stock and is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand;

(2) Any combination of parts from which a firearm of a type described in division (C)(1) of this section can be assembled.

Do you see where a magazine fits anywhere in that definition, loaded or not? No.

Oh, and Welcome to the forum! I misplaced my manners for a minute.

[Deserteagle]

There are three major sources of misinformation regarding firearms laws: one of them being CCW instructors. I won't mention LEO as being another one, because Deserteagle will call me on it. :-)

Lol. You're quite a nice fellow haha.

[NCIC105]

There is as many misunderstandings about CWP laws from LEO as from anyone else. I know I'm retired LEO...

Some of the things I've heard fellow officers say as being fact, were in fact wrong!

Heck, I have misstated some laws...While it is not intentional... We misinterpreted the law. It is very easy to do. If in doubt speak with an attorney of a judge...But even they can misquote the law.

[NavyLCDR]

There is as many misunderstandings about CWP laws from LEO as from anyone else. I know I'm retired LEO...

Some of the things I've heard fellow officers say as being fact, were in fact wrong!

Heck, I have misstated some laws...While it is not intentional... We misinterpreted the law. It is very easy to do. If in doubt speak with an attorney of a judge...But even they can misquote the law.

Get him, deserteagle, get him! :-)

[martywinston]

As I mention elsewhere, I'm a reporter - as a result, I have a genetic preference for authoritative answers that have corroborable information - which you've provided and I'm grateful.

I'm having lunch today with the Sheriff - right after I drop off my CCW application - but I think I know what his response to this would be. We're a rural county and I'm guessing they would never nitpick about this kind of issue unless there were some broader concern in play.

This is a fun place - thanks for the welcome.

[NavyLCDR]

I'm having lunch today with the Sheriff - right after I drop off my CCW application - but I think I know what his response to this would be.

Well, I'm sorry deserteagle, but it's time to say it. The three biggest sources of misinformation regarding firearms laws are CCW Instructors, gun shop employees, and law enforcement officers.

[imrambi]

Yes OH is strange. According to OH I own fully automatic firearms because I have magazines that hold more than 30 rds. It does matter that I have to pull the trigger for everyshot I make, its a full auto.

[Buellerxb]

Congrats on your CHL! I would strongly suggest taking a look at the book "Ohio Guide to Firearm Laws" by Ken Hanson. Ken is an attorney here in Ohio and helped with forming the laws. A great guy and long time NRA instructor as well. For an attorney, he cuts right to the core issues. And to answer your original question, if u don't have a CHL then it's illegal to have a loaded mag in the vehicle along with the weapon it fits into. But I'm not sure if it's a M or F, let alone which degree. But I think that was answered already.

[S&W645]

I have to laugh at the part about magazines and speed loaders counting when loaded but a en-bloc clip or a stripper clip isn't.

Welcome martywinston. What county? Washington County is that way.