Crossbreed Accidental Discharge?
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Crossbreed Accidental Discharge?

This is a discussion on Crossbreed Accidental Discharge? within the Concealed Carry Discussion forums, part of the Main Category category; So I tightened the kydex on my crossbreed the other day. I wanted it tight enough so I wouldn't feel ...

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    Glockout is offline Banned
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    Default Crossbreed Accidental Discharge?

    So I tightened the kydex on my crossbreed the other day. I wanted it tight enough so I wouldn't feel like my weapon will fall out if I am running or get into an altercation where my weapon being drawn is not necessary. I am hearing a lot of stories about glocks going off while re holstering. I'm wondering if it is possible for the kydex to be too tight on the trigger guard, causing I to rub and maybe discharge the weapon. I have worn mine for five years now with no AD's but am becoming a bit uncomfortable reading about all of these. Am I just being paranoid?

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    Unless the kydex is stretched so far into the trigger guard as to activate the trigger / finger safety, it is "impossible" ...
    (keeping in mind " All guns are loaded, never point the muzzle at anything you don't intend to destroy ... never trust a mechanical safety ...(etc.)

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    I wouldn't say that you are paranoid just safety conscience, I have two of them and another one on the way I would just adjust it before hand with the screw that is on it. I like the kydex type of holsters myself, two of my holsters is a blade-tech and the other is JP holsters. Safety is top notch with it come to guns and weapons, I think that you can't be paranoid enough.

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    Otis is that you? Finger off trigger= no discharge...Finger on trigger= discharge. "All of these" Negligent discharges are most likely operator error. I am sure if you miss the holster and catch the trigger on the kydex the right way you could cause the gun to fire. But I would also consider that negligent...not an accident. During dry-fire practice I have tried holstering different ways to see if I could catch the trigger...If the muzzle was properly placed in the holster, the trigger never moved. I am sure models with a grip safety would fire if you tried to re-holster and failed to remove your finger from the trigger also.

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    I'm not sure about how many AD's you're hearing about involving Glocks, but I would say look at the number of Glocks out there vs the number of AD's. That's even assuming that the stories are accurate and not exaggerated. If the holster is enough to cause a Glock to fire, then I guarantee that it'll be the same way with any other gun using the same safety types. I definitely wouldn't start being concerned about it. Just my opinion.

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    The following happened at Frontsight.
    Incident occurred December 11, 2000 on the first morning of an instructor development course. The instructor candidate, a 22 year combat veteran of the U.S. Marine Corps, had never attended a handgun course at Front Sight and was trying out for instructor positions with 67 other candidates of equally impressive backgrounds.
    Earlier in the morning, the student had switched from a leather holster to a Kydex holster.
    17 students on the firing line. 5 Front Sight instructors observing and instructing the 17 students on the firing line. A ratio of one instructor for every 3 to 4 students.
    All students were warming up with dry practice drills prior to the morning Skills Evaluation Test to allow the instructors to watch for any potential safety violations or unsafe gun handling. This student demonstrated a smooth, quick presentation, keeping his finger outside the trigger guard until his sights were on the target. Upon holstering the weapon he also maintained proper trigger finger placement - outside the trigger guard, along the side of the frame. He holstered the weapon numerous times without any indication of problem or malfunction.
    Weapon used was a Colt Gold Cup 1911 .45ACP with a long, wide trigger that is the same width as the trigger guard. Student had owned the handgun for approximately one year.
    Immediately following the first controlled pair shots, while holstering the weapon, a negligent discharge occurred.
    Bullet was 230 grain, full metal jacket, hollow point.
    Physical evidence of the spent case failing to eject from the weapon and powder burns on the student's pants from the muzzle end of the holster, and eye witness reports indicate that the weapon fired when the gun was fully seated into the holster - with the student's finger off the trigger.
    The bullet grazed the lateral aspect of his upper thigh for approximately 12 inches and struck the lateral aspect of his boot at the base of the small toe, deflecting off the boot.
    The bullet was later recovered on the range. The hollow point was filled with the student's pant material and deformed without expansion.
    Immediate action taken on the firing line was to first convince the student that he had in fact been injured as he did not realize he was wounded. Two of Front Sight's twelve, on-site medics walked with the student off the range and assisted him in removing his pants and boots.
    Removing his pants and boots revealed a straight line of tissue damage approximately 12 inches in length down the lateral aspect of his thigh. The surface layers of skin had retracted in some areas to produce a very nasty looking wound, yet remarkably superficial. He also had a bruise developing at the lateral base of his small toe.
    First aid in the form of a compression bandage and vital sign monitoring was administered by Front Sight's EMT. The student remained remarkably calm with strong vital signs, and relatively no signs of pain from the injury. The student requested to return to the firing line to complete the course.
    Upon evaluating the injury, physical and mental status of the student, Dr. Piazza assigned Front Sight instructor Fred Jones (retired police officer and EMT trained) to transport the student by ground transportation to the local emergency room - a 20 minute drive from the training site.
    In transit to the emergency room, the Sheriff's office was notified of the incident with no further action needed.
    Emergency room treatment included cleansing the wound, bandages, and an antibiotic prescription and over the counter anti-inflammatory/pain medication.
    Inspection of the Gold Cup 1911 and Kydex holster revealed the problem. The Gold Cup has a long and wide trigger. The holster the student purchased was for a standard Government Model 1911. The holster is equipped with plastic recesses that fit into the trigger guard to secure the weapon into the holster. The combination of the wide trigger on the Gold Cup, holster designed for a standard Government Model, and THE THUMB SAFETY NOT PROPERLY ENGAGED UPON HOLSTERING, created the potential for the weapon to fire upon holstering.
    It is clear that the student holstered the weapon with his finger outside the trigger guard, but failed to properly engage the thumb safety. As the pistol was holstered, with the thumb safety off, the long, wide trigger came in contact with the kydex holster, discharging the weapon upon fully seating in the holster. There is some speculation that the frame of the weapon may have moved forward under the slide with just enough movement to further engage the trigger on the holster, but not so far as to disengage the firing mechanism. EITHER WAY, THE INCIDENT WOULD HAVE BEEN PREVENTED HAD THE THUMB SAFETY BEEN PROPERLY ENGAGED UPON HOLSTERING.
    Student returned that afternoon and completed the four day instructor development course with a Glock 9mm and holster supplied by Front Sight. This retired Marine is a very stout individual, both mentally and physically.



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Click on any of the images for a larger view.

    Opinions:
    Front Sight does not recommend the Gold Cup design as a self defense weapon for many reasons- the long wide trigger design being one of the reasons. Other reasons include: numerous sharp edges requiring dehorning; tight tolerances that may enhance inherent accuracy, but adversely affect reliability; adjustable sights that are not required, have sharp edges and can loosen under repeated use.

    Front Sight does use and recommends the Kydex type holster. All of our instructors wear Kydex holsters.

    In this incident, equipment played a part in the negligent discharge. The combination of the long and wide Gold Cup trigger, and the Kydex holster with its trigger guard securing design created the potential for a negligent discharge to occur should the thumb safety not be engaged.

    However, we must recognize that the failure to employ the thumb safety on a 1911 pistol-any 1911 style pistol-is a violation of proper gun handling with the single-action, auto-loading pistol and is the underlying cause of this unfortunate incident.

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    If to tight on trigger then tighten it around the ejection port. Done that with my Crossbread and my 40cal. and it works very well.

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    kerb is offline pinche gringo
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    The kydex should be molded for your exact gun.
    On the Kydex I make, generally I can visualize the impression of the trigger through the kydex, and the kydex extends slightly down past the trigger and into the trigger guard. This provides great retention.
    However, if the kydex is molded properly, the other parts of the kydex (the front of the trigger guard mainly) should keep the gun from being inserted deeply enough so that the trigger engages (or even has pressure on it).

    Here's a pic of a work in progress (kydex and leather edges aren't finished yet, and the leather hasn't been hardened or dyed).

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    Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glockout View Post
    Am I just being paranoid?
    Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean there's nothing wrong. Paranoia is a good habit with guns. At least, to an extent.
    TANSTAAFL

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    kerb is offline pinche gringo
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    Quote Originally Posted by jameshd View Post
    Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean there's nothing wrong. Paranoia is a good habit with guns. At least, to an extent.
    Plus it never hurts to realize that they really are out to get you. LOL
    Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive.

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