Unpaid Speeding Ticket and Carry Permit

[se7en]

Hello everyone. I'm new to the forum but have been a long time lurker. Recently, I decided to go about getting my carry permit here in Tennessee. I have done everything that is required, including finger printing...which is the last step before it goes to the TBI.

One problem, though. When I was going over anything that could possibly stop me from obtaining the permit, my wife reminded me of an 11 year old unpaid speeding ticket from Marion County Indiana (Indianapolis). Long story on why I decided NOT to pay the ticket, but let's just say that it was total BS...and my wife still agrees with me to this day. Other than that, I'm squeaky clean.

Will this stop me from getting the permit? If so, I guess I could try and handle it quickly. I heard from the handgun safety instructor that there is a 28% increase in permits this year and they are running true to the allotted 90 day window for issuance.

I would really appreciate your thoughts...or better yet, facts if you have them.

[TheMan]

It may or may not come up during your investigation. I wouldn't worry about it as precluding you from a carry permit in a different state, but it's hard to say.

[OldOwl]

Check the two states for reciprocity. If they honor each others permits it is likely to come up. If not, it's unlikely. States aren't usually willing to go out of their way for states which don't reciprocate and do stuff for them.

Also, some states the law says a misdemeanor disqualifies you for a gun permit, while some like here, assachusetts, you're only supposed to be denied if you have a felony or drug conviction. But since its upt to the police chief of the city you reside in, they can deny you by saying you have "disregard for the law" for any stupid little thing.

See if the two states reciprocate.

[jmcrooks]

I don't know about Tennesse but I don't think Florida's back ground check goes very deep, I had to send in proof of U.S. citizenship because being born in Panama while my dad was in the Army. The thing that got me was I had been in the Navy held a confidenctial clearance and now I work for the DoD and have a Secret clearance. None of which a foreign national can hold. Go figure.

[Willard Of Oz]

Pay the ticket.

They don't want to hear any excuses, you wouldn't win anyway.

You make a stand and may not get the permit.

It is possible that you have a bench warrant for your arrest in IN, you would not neccesarily know.

Sometimes you just have to suck it up to get what you want.

Pay the ticket.

[2beararms]

Reading the Tennessee requirements, unless the ticket was for DUI I do not see where you have a problem. Tennessee does not require you to have a "clean" record it requires you to have no felony convictions, no convictions punishable by more than 1 year, no DUI and no Domestic Violence convictions. The important thing also is the word conviction, not arrests.

Tennessee is a SHALL ISSUE state, not a may issue. It is a central issue state with the Dept of Safety doing the issue, so it is not up some individual county sheriff or police cheif or anyone else, the law is simple, if you don't have the convictions, you DO get the permit. There is no "we'll think about it". So as to your permit, you should have no problem with this at all... unless there is a warrant for you for a felony.

That said, deciding not to pay a speeding ticket because it is BS is simply stupid. Deciding not to adhere to a legal order anytime is simply stupid. Either pay the ticket or take it to court. It is not possible to fight the system by deciding you don't have to follow it. You can do what you want, but get it handled for it will come back to haunt you sooner or later and for my bet, paying it is the easy way out.

[ronwill]

The best way to fight the ticket would have been going to traffic court. Of course that may not always be possible. According to the Tennessee state page here on USA Carry, tickets are not listed as a reason for denial. Here's the list:

Requirements:
1. Successfully complete a handgun safety course offered by a handgun safety school that is certified by the Department of Safety
2. Resident of the State Of Tennessee
3. 21 years of age
4. Applicants shall not currently be under indictment or information for any criminal offense punishable by a term exceeding one (1) year;
5. Shall not be currently the subject of any order of protection;
6. Shall not be a fugitive from justice;
7. Shall not be an unlawful user of or addicted to alcohol or any controlled substance and the applicant has not been a patient in a rehabilitation program or hospitalized for alcohol or controlled substance abuse or addiction within ten (10) years from the date of application;
8. The applicant has not been convicted of the offense of driving under the influence of an intoxicant in this or any other State two (2) or more times within ten (10) years from the date of application and that none of such convictions has occurred within five (5) years from the date of application or renewal.
9. Shall not have been adjudicated as mental defective; has not been committed to or hospitalized in a mental institution; has not had a court appoint a conservator for the applicant by reason of a mental defect; has not been judicially determined to be disabled by reason of a mental illness, development disability or other mental incapacity; and has not, within seven (7) years from the date of application, been found by a court to pose an immediate substantial likelihood of serious harm, as defined in Title 33, Chapter 6, Part 5, because of mental illness;
10. Shall not be an alien illegally or unlawfully in the United States;
11. Shall not have been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions (dishonorable discharge, bad conduct discharge or other than honorable discharge Chapter 1340-2-5-.02 (5);
12. Having been a citizen of the United States, applicants shall not have renounced their citizenship;
13. Shall not have been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence as defined in 18 U.S.C.A. 921 (33);
14. Shall not be receiving social security disability benefits by reason of alcohol dependence, drug dependence or mental disability;
15. Shall not have been convicted of the offense of stalking.

[se7en]

Originally Posted by 2beararms

That said, deciding not to pay a speeding ticket because it is BS is simply stupid. Deciding not to adhere to a legal order anytime is simply stupid. Either pay the ticket or take it to court. It is not possible to fight the system by deciding you don't have to follow it.

Maybe it was stupid, but sometimes its the point of the matter. IN THIS CASE, I would rather disregard the law because his interpretation of the law was not valid. The side of the road was not the time or place to argue the law...not that I would have won anyway. LEOs are ALWAYS right...even when they're wrong. Being that I was from out of state and would not be venturing into that state again anytime soon, I thought I would "boycott" his decision to issue by simply not paying. Going to court in another state would require me missing a day of work, spending gas for the trip, probably a room for the night...yada, yada, yada. Obviously spending way more on that than the tickets cost.

Originally Posted by 2beararms

You can do what you want, but get it handled for it will come back to haunt you sooner or later and for my bet, paying it is the easy way out.

I may still yet because this is more important than that incident 11 years ago. It still stings, though. I haven't even thought about it for years until yesterday...and I got pissed all over again.

[se7en]

Originally Posted by 2beararms

That said, deciding not to pay a speeding ticket because it is BS is simply stupid. Deciding not to adhere to a legal order anytime is simply stupid. Either pay the ticket or take it to court. It is not possible to fight the system by deciding you don't have to follow it.

Maybe it was stupid...but sometimes its the point of the matter. I chose not to pay as a way to "boycott" his decision to issue a ticket. Sure, I could have decided to contest it in court. That would require a day from work, gas, probably an overnight stay...yada, yada, yada. Obviously, I would have spent way more than the ticket's value and it would have been all for not. IMO, LEOs are right...even when they're wrong and most judges will back them up a thousand times before seeing our point. Especially when you're from out of state.

Originally Posted by 2beararms

You can do what you want, but get it handled for it will come back to haunt you sooner or later and for my bet, paying it is the easy way out.

I may still yet as this is more important to me than an 11 year old beef. It still stings, though. I haven't thought of the incident for years until yesterday...and I got pissed off all over again.

[2beararms]

Originally Posted by se7en

...even when they're wrong and most judges will back them up a thousand times before seeing our point. Especially when you're from out of state.

I could not agree more with your sentiment, but I also realize that no matter, I have to live within the system. I have paid many an undeserved ticket or other penalty over the years because it was less aggrevation than fighting it and NEVER worth damaging my credibility by ignoring it.

I had a friend who got a $25 bill from a Doctor she claimed she never heard of so she decided not to pay it on principle. They turned it over to collections, she simply ignored it ... I don't owe it, I won't pay it was here attitude. The other year she decided she wanted to buy a half million dollar house, which was a great deal and she could afford the payments. The judgement on her credit record over that damn $25 bill however prevented her from being able to get a mortgage in reasonable time and the deal fell through.

Was it worth it to her? Today she says she wishes she had paid the bill and not screwed up her credit over a lousy $25 bucks.

If idealism was all that mattered, why would you apply for a permit in the first place. According to nearly all here, carry of a firearm IS a right afforded us by the constitution, yet we all do the process to get the permit.

I, perhaps unfortuantely, see the system for what it is ... flawed but the only one we've got so I figure I have to work within it, period.