Inform the officer or not when concealed carry?

[S&W645]

Just to be clear no one is advocating not showing your permit when you are required to do so by law and certainly none of the 2A Cabal is advocating lying to the police when asked.

What we are positing is simply that the fact that I am armed is irrelevant to the the stop.

Of all the states that allow CC only 10 require you to notify the officer during a police interaction. I think that's significant, we're at, what 45- 47 states that allow ccw? and only 10 feel that Officer safety is enhanced by requiring notification. In many states (Colorado included) no permit is required to carry a concealed weapon in your vehicle, how would a law requiring notification by permit holders affect them? More significantly, how would such a law affect the thousands of criminal who ignore every other gun law on the books on a daily basis?

I can't see how informing a police officer you're heeled can do anything but escalate tensions, especially if you win the lottery and inform an officer who thinks anyone with a CCW is a wannabe cop.

There's no benefit to me if I voluntarily inform so I don't. I'm required to produce my permit and a valid I.D if I'm asked that would be the only time I would do so.

I also think threads like this don't change people's minds at all, sheep are sheep it's in their nature it's who they are.

Why is that so hard to grasp?

How do you like my new sig line?

As added comments to kelcarry, I do respect the police. I have worked with them and my degree Major was in Law Enforcement Management. Neighbor is a retired cop and another neighbor is one currently. But like in the military, never volunteer information. If the LEO in this state wants that info, they will ask. If you ever attended classes in college in the 70s, one of the films shown in the LAE classes was " Shoot. Don't shoot". Training tells you never to let your guard down when coming up on the driver's side of a vehicle. That beautiful blonde in a convertible might just be the one to end your life. I'd guess that the LEO that gave my CWP class also has seen the film ( or one like it/or simulator time )as she treats all stops as if the person(s) in the vehicle is armed. Not paranoid, just cautious. In states that require producing it, then you do.

[NavyLCDR]

Rayven, Treo, Antietam, Navy LT, HP-hobo and a few others, you have changed my mind.

I have had traffic stops in the past and was courteous and polite in every case, sometimes I got ticketed, others not.

Rick

And what's funny is that none of us are advocating changing anything about the above behavior. It's amazing to me how many Americans (not you, Rick) think that exercising the rights our Constitution protects is impolite and rude.

As Treo said... the presence of my gun, lawfully possessed and carried, in most cases with a permit issued by the state, simply has absolutely no bearing or relevance in the context of a traffic stop.

Now, if my cell phone rings and I answer it and talk on it during the traffic stop.... that's being rude. Not informing the officer of every legal item I am carrying in my car including my gun is actually more polite, because I am not wasting his time making an issue out of something that is totally irrelevant to the circumstances. If the officer CHOOSES to waste his time and mine making an issue out of it, if he finds out I have a CPL - then that choice is his.

[brolin1911a1]

This thread brought to mind my last encounter with an LEO.

The automatic transmission on my Explorer suddenly just quit, refused to go into gear, at a red light leaving me sitting there blocking one lane of traffic at a five-lane intersection. A local cop showed up, parked behind me with his lights flashing, asked the problem, and called for a wrecker.

As we sat in his nice warm car waiting for the wrecker to arrive (about 45min.) the topic somehow turned to CCW via discussion of some local home invasions. He mentioned being heartily in favor of CCW, that his wife had her CCW, and that he thought everyone should. He never once asked about mine although the info was readily available from DMV when he ran my plates and license and he was undoubtedly informed upon first arriving on the scene. Nor did he ask if or what I was carrying. I did mention in the course of the conversation, after about half an hour in his car, that my carry gun for the day was a compact 1911. His only comment was that was a good choice, that he preferred the 1911 himself when not on duty.

I consider him an excellent example of a cop with the proper attitude towards citizens lawfully and non-threateningly exercising their basic rights.

[sthomper]

"Inform the officer or not when concealed carry?"


why should you inform?? and why not advocate against a law requiring to inform??

[sthomper]

What we are positing is simply that the fact that I am armed is irrelevant to the the stop.

doesnt that depend on what you are stopped for??

ie, report of a drive by shoot in a dark sedan...you are in a dark sedan...relevant??


busted out tail light why should you have to inform anyone of arms??

[sthomper]

" Inform the officer or not when concealed carry?

60 pages in a forum "on inform the officer or not??" inform because you want too???

inform because you think you have to?

or reject the unconstitutional law and not inform at all?? should you philosophically?? should there even be a law requiring it??

what is it that 60 pages didnt answer in 3 or 4??

[Treo]

What we are positing is simply that the fact that I am armed is irrelevant to the the stop.

doesnt that depend on what you are stopped for??

ie, report of a drive by shoot in a dark sedan...you are in a dark sedan...relevant??

busted out tail light why should you have to inform anyone of arms??

That is exactly the reason that I do not inform the officer unless I am asked.

When the cop walks up to my car I don't know why he stopped me. It may be the tail light or it may be the drive by but since I wasn't involved in the drive by why do I need to tell the cop I'm armed?

1. People have gone to jail for being in the wrong place, at the wrong time and fitting a general description.

2. If you talk to a police officer long enough you will say something that can be used against you.

If a police officer stops you he holds all the cards. He knows why he stopped you. He knows what he suspects you of. And he is under no obligation to share any of that information W/you.

This is a perfect time to calmly and firmly assert your rights

if I were stopped on the street (on foot) and questioned by a police officer the very first words out of my mouth would be "Officer am I free to leave." This question establishes the status of the contact immediately, and tells you exactly how to proceed. If you are told you are free to go do so immediately, Thank you officer have a good day. Do not say another word.

If the officer tells you, you are not free to go you can rest assured that he suspects you of something and is looking for probable cause to make an arrest. This also establishes the contact as official, I would hand him my ID & CHP immediately (you’re not sitting in a car he's going to pat you down)

If you are being detained the less you say the better, if the officer has probable cause he's going to arrest you no matter what you say. If he doesn't the easiest way for him to get it is for you to open your mouth. If asked where my weapon is I would answer directly and refuse comment on all other questions. "Officer I do not wish to make a statement or answer questions without my lawyer present" He can't keep you there forever & if he had PC you'd already be in handcuffs. No matter what he asks you (exception questions directly related to where your firearm is) ask to speak to your lawyer before answering the question.

[G50AE]

REALLY? Hmmm. I guess these guys were the height of irresponsible citizens, with no common sense at all then, having no understanding of what that means then, eh?



Shame, shame on us for being angry constitutionalists standing up against government authority when it oversteps the bounds of the Constitution.

That's an even cooler pic than the one of your CCW Badge.

[G50AE]

Hey NavyLT: You and the rest of your 2A cabal have stated your case. Smart remarks are stupid and playing word games. I respect LEOs and what they do-you have a different opinion--fine--I don't know you and you don't know me---fine. Apparently where you live, your town hires cowboys with no sense and no ability other than to hassle. Maybe if I lived there I would feel the same way but where I live and the ones that I have gotten to know I have no problem obeying the law (no tickets and a requirement to show CCWP if stopped) and respecting their position in my community.

This coming from someone who once said that I was obviously hostile towards South Carolina LEO's for taking the time to explain to another poster that caneguns fall under the rules of "any other weapon" under the National Firearms Act.

[NavyLCDR]

If the officer tells you, you are not free to go you can rest assured that he suspects you of something and is looking for probable cause to make an arrest. This also establishes the contact as official, I would hand him my ID & CHP immediately (you’re not sitting in a car he's going to pat you down)

This varies by state law too. In Washington, I only have to produce my CPL when it is requested by the officer, and I am never under any legal obligation to inform them that I am carrying. I also am never under any legal obligation to voluntarily produce an ID card or driver's license (except when actually in control of a vehicle).