Insult my wife

[dstressman]

alot of what if's, how many times has anyone actually had someone just walk up and spit on them or someone their with ?

[6shootercarry]

alot of what if's, how many times has anyone actually had someone just walk up and spit on them or someone their with ?

I think the “point in time” with regards to the spitting question was in the case of a verbal argument in which the aggressor decides to escalate the situation by spitting.
I have to say that would get me to act. LEO would consider that assault…
There was a case in our town of some teenagers who were in front of a local convenience store and were swearing when customers were entering and leaving trying to start a fight.
My friend (LEO in town) told me that one... Why???
The topic being addressed here in this thread is: When insult happens (and you will least expect it) how will you react? Most of the folks that frequent this site will be armed. How do you handle it when you have a weapon on your hip that could save your life or bring you trouble like you have never reckoned? The intent in my opinion:
Just try to get people that read this (FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE THREAD PLEASE!!!!) to think “What would I do if faced with this "test from God”. Your immediate reaction could be your undoing or it could keep peace…

[kelcarry]

Spitting is assault but it is not a precursor to deadly intentions; it is not a reason for the presentation of a CCW but it is a reason to call LEO or get away from the situation if you are CC. All the "what ifs", even if they are repetitive, are interesting to read; each of them, although repetitive to a great degree, have little differences that add to my forum experience. If the repetitveness is getting you tired, there are plenty of other threads to exercise your CCW learning experience besides this long-running thread. Thanks guys for your input.

[BamaBoy]

The courts recognize "fighting words." If you say to someone, "Nice parking job, you stupid idiot," and he slugs you, he's in trouble. If you say, "Nice parking job, you stupid n****r," you have uttered "fighting words," and the situation is now very different. Spitting can fall into that category.

[JJFlash]

Ok, I'm still posting here even tho I said I was done; I'm weak, what can I say?

It occurs to me that we train for the "moment of truth"; at least I did at Frontsight. In this case, it's do or die: you're in imminent danger, you need to get the weapon out, and you need to effectively stop the threat. Assuming you "win" (using the term loosely), the BG's down (dead?), his weapon is right by his body, witnesses step forward to back up your story. This is the optimal scenario insofar as you're still living, no charges are being pressed and you are at ease in your mind that you did the right thing.

But life is rarely that black and white, is it? What if, what if, what if...it's endless. And we don't train for the "what ifs", do we? How do you do THAT? Doesn't appear necessary to fire any bullets, and fire bullets is what we do when we train.

In this case, guy insults your wife (for whatever reason), you ignore it. Guy spits on your wife. Who the hell is gonna ignore that? I'm not. Now, it's a problem, cause I'm carrying. How do you say or do ANYTHING when you're carrying without fear of escalation? Do we lose our right to verbally address a "wrong" because it may escalate?

I don't know...it seems sometimes that concealed carry is a lot more trouble than it's worth. You gotta be a marksman, a tactician, a diplomat, a lawyer...cause if you're not, you're hurt, dead, in jail, broke.

Right now, I'm thinking that Mainsail was right: the solution to escalation problems is prevention thru open carry. Is someone gonna spit on you or your wife if they SEE you're carrying? Odds are definitely lower. Maybe he's got a point...

[kelcarry]

Hey JJFlash: As you said in your last post--you're weak--guess what--so am I. I guess we are two old guys who have a good time discussing something we find to be very important. As to your comments--spitting is simple assault and the police should be handling it---not you, particularly if you are CC. In my heart, and I am not the calmest guy out there, I would like nothing better that shove the gun down the idiot's throat and ask him to spit on the gun, but it will only give me untold legal grief.

[JJFlash]

Hey JJFlash: As you said in your last post--you're weak--guess what--so am I. I guess we are two old guys who have a good time discussing something we find to be very important. As to your comments--spitting is simple assault and the police should be handling it---not you, particularly if you are CC. In my heart, and I am not the calmest guy out there, I would like nothing better that shove the gun down the idiot's throat and ask him to spit on the gun, but it will only give me untold legal grief.

You're right all across the board, Kelcarry. You know, I've carried off and on for almost 30 years. Like you, I have never even THOUGHT about pulling my weapon. Common sense goes a long way iin avoiding conflict (so does being 6'2'', 280). I generally get along with just about everybody, in a wide range of circles (outlaw bikers, cops, plumbers, college professors). So, I finally get some real training and now all I can think is that if you ever do pull this weapon, you're in for a ton of crap: legal, emotional, financial. So, I really do appreciate thinking and discussing these "what ifs"; it's gotta be done. Our younger and/or more agressive brothers need to take heed; using that weapon is about the LAST thing you want to do. Hopefully, given the legalities, we're all fast enough to use it when we need to, cause we aren't gonna have a lot of time to think about it. Oh yeah, and apparentlly, we need to be keeping our mouths shut and walking away from just about everything except dire threats. Gonna be tough for some of us.

[6shootercarry]

You're right all across the board, Kelcarry. You know, I've carried off and on for almost 30 years. Like you, I have never even THOUGHT about pulling my weapon. Common sense goes a long way iin avoiding conflict (so does being 6'2'', 280). I generally get along with just about everybody, in a wide range of circles (outlaw bikers, cops, plumbers, college professors). So, I finally get some real training and now all I can think is that if you ever do pull this weapon, you're in for a ton of crap: legal, emotional, financial. So, I really do appreciate thinking and discussing these "what ifs"; it's gotta be done. Our younger and/or more agressive brothers need to take heed; using that weapon is about the LAST thing you want to do. Hopefully, given the legalities, we're all fast enough to use it when we need to, cause we aren't gonna have a lot of time to think about it. Oh yeah, and apparentlly, we need to be keeping our mouths shut and walking away from just about everything except dire threats. Gonna be tough for some of us.

I figured you were gonna come back for one more... Made it a good one... Well said...

Freedom always comes with a cost...That's the truth...

[BamaBoy]

OK, guys and gals. Here's what the lawyers said about somebody insulting your wife, spitting on you, and so on.

When you are armed, it is your responsibility to try to de-escalate any situation. If somebody insults you (in such a way as to pick a fight), ignore it and leave the area. If somebody spits on you or your wife, get out of there and call the police. Since the person was obviously looking for violence and trying to goad you into confronting him, you will be better off not contributing in any way to an escalating situation. So retreat if possible. At this point, if the jerk now comes after you and eventually forces you to draw your weapon, you will look very good in court, and he will look very bad even if he is very dead.

However, the lawyers cautioned that even if you are in the right, if you end up drawing your weapon, the prosecutor (especially in states where the political climate is hostile to gun owners) will try to make out as if you were out there looking for trouble. They also said that juries cannot be trusted; many people today think that anybody who owns a gun must be some kind of evil monster. They asked whether you really want to spent $15,000 to prove yourself right. So when armed be as peaceful as possible. You enjoy carrying the power to counter a deadly threat, but the price is that you have to be as thick-skinned and composed as a police officer or other professional. (I guess umpiring all those years has given me practice.) When you are carrying, though you are not a police officer, you're also no longer just a regular citizen.

The lawyers emphasized that the political climate makes a big difference because there are so many gray areas in which there is simply no case law, and state laws vary widely. They said that in Alabama, nobody is even certain whether open carry is legal or not. They recommend not to do it, and the expert in firearms tactics chipped in that, strategically, you're much better off carrying concealed (he gave several examples of why).

The lawyers certainly were unequivocal that you should never answer police questions after an incident. Give your name and produce whatever ID they ask for, but do not answer any questions about what happened. Do not even say, "He came at me with an axe. I had to shoot him." Say that you cannot make any comment without your lawyer present. Yes, you will spend some time at the station, but they said that no one ever regretted invoking his right to remain silent.

It was interesting that the responses the lawyers' gave to most of the "what if" questions were tempered with caution that there are many, many factors that enter into deadly-force cases. They were always saying, "It depends on this, and if this, and if that." And the more examples they gave of cases they had defended, the more I thought, "I'm not touching that gun unless there's no other choice."

Sometime in the new year, the tactical expert is giving a course in how to handle various situations after you have decided that deadly force has actually become necessary. I think I'm going to sign up for it.

[JJFlash]

BamaBoy, You are to be commended for getting back on this, as you said you would. Thanks, man.

What a wealth of information...and a lot to think about.