OC Spray/Mace = The Presentation of Deadly Force?

[kforce]

Anticipating potential confrontations is the key to mental preparation. One of the more frequent "what-ifs" we hear from students involves the presentation of OC spray/mace and the Taser. If armed with a weapon and threatened with this sort of device, what amount of force are you as an individual comfortable using in response? Thoughts?

[armyman_83]

Anticipating potential confrontations is the key to mental preparation. One of the more frequent "what-ifs" we hear from students involves the presentation of OC spray/mace and the Taser. If armed with a weapon and threatened with this sort of device, what amount of force are you as an individual comfortable using in response? Thoughts?

I would smoke anyone who were to threaten me with ANY weapon. If someone held me at "Taser point" and I had a chance to shoot them, then I would. A Taser can incapacitate you and then you are free to their whim. Be it merely robbery or much worse. You don't know what they could do. If they blind you with CS or pepper spray then who is to say they aren't going to stab you after that? I am not taking that chance. I would make sure the threat was eliminated.

[CathyInBlue]

Considering that the authorities who use such devices place them under the heading of less than lethal force, so I don't see my use of them on another person to be able to rise to the level of deadly force, assuming everyone survived the encounter.

Flip side, the use of such technologies (less than lethal weaponry) in combat has always, and without fail, been used for the strict purpose of making overtly lethal weaponry more effective. Spray tear gas into the bunker to make it easier to get up and toss a couple of grenades inside and turn their crying asses into hamburger. That thought would always be in my mind once an aggressor took out a less than lethal weapon. That being the case, anything you can do before incapacitation to avoid such imputed lethal use of force after incapacitation is absolutely kosher.

Or, as Armyman put it, smoke the asses of anyone who uses any kind of weapon on you.

[Islander]

I would say it falls under the same category as someone punching you in the face. That in and of itself isn't usually deadly force either, but it is an attack. It certainly could cause me to fear for my life, and I would respond appropriately to stop the threat.

[oldbanjo]

I'm not sure but I think if someone gets the mace from a Police Officer he has the right to use deadly force.

[ClearSightTactical]

I own a security guard company. Our guards carry OC/Baton/Taser and some handgun. OC/Taser are considered 'less-than-lethal' as is Baton GENERALLY (depending on strike points). I said this because I've been certified in all of the devices listed above:

OC can incapacitate you enough to have your weapon taken away.

Baton IMO is DEADLY force, IE: Someone gets hold of my baton and doesn't follow verbal commands (and there is no where to run..not required but i'd run..) I'd likely employ deadly force.

Taser - We just ordered new X26's and prior had M26's I can attest that these devices are extremely effective at incapacitating someone. Especially the NON-L.E models which give a 30 second firing.

To answer your question: If speaking clearly within the boundary's of the law my state says that

DEADLY FORCE IS NEVER CONSIDERED JUSTIFIED IN RESPONSE TO A NON-DEADLY THREAT.

I'm not sure if one would be able to articulate how they felt the threat was deadly based on 'what-could' happen after the initial battery.

In short I agree with ISLANDER.

[G50AE]

Tasers are not "non-lethal" instruments of force. They are "Less-lethal" instruments of force. The Taser has in fact caused fatalities in its use by law enforcement. You can't call something non-lethal if it has caused fatalities.

[Cocked _and_Locked]

I'm not sure if one would be able to articulate how they felt the threat was deadly based on 'what-could' happen after the initial battery.

In short I agree with ISLANDER.

It sounds like you are saying you are not sure how you would be explaining yourself to your defense lawyer and the Judge at your arraignment.

Did I get that right?

[ClearSightTactical]

It sounds like you are saying you are not sure how you would be explaining yourself to your defense lawyer and the Judge at your arraignment.

Did I get that right?

That is in fact what I'm saying.

[ClearSightTactical]

Tasers are not "non-lethal" instruments of force. They are "Less-lethal" instruments of force. The Taser has in fact caused fatalities in its use by law enforcement. You can't call something non-lethal if it has caused fatalities.

Taser spends a ton of money making sure their device is never listed as the cause of death. Can you provide a reference that lists Taser as being the cause of death please?