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Alright guys help me out with this one

This is a discussion on Alright guys help me out with this one within the Deadly Force and The Law forums, part of the Main Category category; OK, I will give Robert the benefit of the doubt. As others have said, it is unlikely your defense would ...

  1. #51
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    OK, I will give Robert the benefit of the doubt.

    As others have said, it is unlikely your defense would hold up. Once the threat is moving away from you, you are no longer justified in shooting. You would have moved from victim to offender.

    You would have several options from the start of this situation:

    1. Be aware of your surroundings. If someone looks or acts suspicious, remove yourself from the vicinity and/or prepare yourself for an encounter. Ready yourself to draw your weapon without displaying it.

    2. Draw your weapon. If someone has a gun in your face, you can choose to draw and shoot. Realize that he may shoot first. Also realize that he may have never intended to harm you, or that he may have a toy, or myriad other possibilities. You will be justified in your actions, but you will have to live with the consequences.

    3. Let him take your wallet. A robbery alone is not justification for deadly action. A robbery plus a weapon is. If you feel you are not actually in danger, let the wallet go, get on your cell, call the police, and cancel your credit cards.

    4. If you truly feel, and you MUST be able to prove this in court, that the perpetrator may take further action after stealing your wallet, you can take the chance and fire. However, if he is retreating at the time, as stated before, it won't hold up in court.

    5. Upon seeing the perpetrator retreat, unholster your weapon and keep it pointed down but ready to fire. With your other hand, dial 911 and start explaining the situation, including the fact that you have a weapon. During this phone call one of two things will happen--the thief will leave, and you can reholster and explain the incident to the dispatcher, or the thief will turn to shoot you and hopefully you will have the presence of mind to fire while being seriously distracted from adrenaline and talking on the phone.

    6. Run after the jerk and tackle him, punch him in the face and get your wallet back. You might get shot, but you probably won't see any jail time.

    None of these options are great. All of them involve risks. Some of them will get you arrested or detained regardless of your innocence or fear for your life.

    It doesn't seem right that we can't stop a person who has stolen something vital to us, such as our identity and entire financial life. But in most cases that's how it is. Life can only be taken when life is immediately threatened, not as an afterthought.
    Ton up!

  2. #52
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    Jul 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by localgirl View Post
    OK, I will give Robert the benefit of the doubt.

    As others have said, it is unlikely your defense would hold up. Once the threat is moving away from you, you are no longer justified in shooting. You would have moved from victim to offender.

    You would have several options from the start of this situation:

    1. Be aware of your surroundings. If someone looks or acts suspicious, remove yourself from the vicinity and/or prepare yourself for an encounter. Ready yourself to draw your weapon without displaying it.

    2. Draw your weapon. If someone has a gun in your face, you can choose to draw and shoot. Realize that he may shoot first. Also realize that he may have never intended to harm you, or that he may have a toy, or myriad other possibilities. You will be justified in your actions, but you will have to live with the consequences.

    3. Let him take your wallet. A robbery alone is not justification for deadly action. A robbery plus a weapon is. If you feel you are not actually in danger, let the wallet go, get on your cell, call the police, and cancel your credit cards.

    4. If you truly feel, and you MUST be able to prove this in court, that the perpetrator may take further action after stealing your wallet, you can take the chance and fire. However, if he is retreating at the time, as stated before, it won't hold up in court.

    5. Upon seeing the perpetrator retreat, unholster your weapon and keep it pointed down but ready to fire. With your other hand, dial 911 and start explaining the situation, including the fact that you have a weapon. During this phone call one of two things will happen--the thief will leave, and you can reholster and explain the incident to the dispatcher, or the thief will turn to shoot you and hopefully you will have the presence of mind to fire while being seriously distracted from adrenaline and talking on the phone.

    6. Run after the jerk and tackle him, punch him in the face and get your wallet back. You might get shot, but you probably won't see any jail time.

    None of these options are great. All of them involve risks. Some of them will get you arrested or detained regardless of your innocence or fear for your life.

    It doesn't seem right that we can't stop a person who has stolen something vital to us, such as our identity and entire financial life. But in most cases that's how it is. Life can only be taken when life is immediately threatened, not as an afterthought.
    Ver nice concise write up!
    Knarren und Zigarren!!!

  3. #53
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    Nov 2010
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    Interesting hypothetical.
    When the BG turned and departed, he was no longer a threat.
    Your decision to use deadly force would land you in prison.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by cruisepl View Post
    Did I miss something in the PA legislature? Last I heard, and I am a CCW in Pennsylvania, concealed carry in the City of Philadelphia was not allowed even with a permit.
    Yes, you missed everything. Starting with the PA Uniform Firearms Act.

    Can you cite the law? Or the source?

    Within the City of Philadelphia, with your PA LTCF or License To Carry Firearms (there is no CCW in PA), you may carry open or concealed.


    Edited to add:
    18 Pa.C.S. § 6108: Carrying firearms on public streets or public property in Philadelphia

    No person shall carry a firearm, rifle or shotgun at any time upon the public streets or upon any public property in a city of the first class unless:
    (1) such person is licensed to carry a firearm; or
    (2) such person is exempt from licensing under section 6106 of this title (relating to firearms not to be carried without a license).
    .
    While many claim to support the right, precious few support the practice.

  5. #55
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    I thought a "BURNER" was a throw away cell phone...I need to watch more CSI or something!

  6. #56
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    I think that the guidelines for Stand-Your-Ground are about the same in all states so just remember the four rules for it. If you follow them it will pretty much answer any question about whether it applies or not.

    1 - You must be in a place where you have a right to be. (It doesn't matter if it is your house or store or on the sidewalk, just that you have the right to be there)

    2 - You must not be breaking any laws during the assault. (Doesn't apply during a drug deal, if you are publicly drunk, etc.)

    3 - You must have no part of initiating the assault. (Can't pick at someone then claim SYG.)

    4 - The amount of force used must be proportional. (This is the tricky one but you must be in imminent fear of life or great bodily harm. An unarmed 8 year-old vs. an armed adult. Multiple attackers vs. single. For you to decide. If they are running away it is going to be very hard to show your life was in danger)

    Open to comments or rebuttals.

  7. #57
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    You are obviously a troll looking to elicit a rise out of legitimate posters on this board.
    Anyone who has the responsibility of concealed carry knows that your scenario is bogus, that responsible cc'ers don't shoot fleeing people in the back, your robbery notwithstanding.
    Either you are clueless or a Bradytroll. I vote troll.

  8. #58
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    Please do not consider this a beat down as it is not intended that way. This is such a basic question it is likely to illicit a strong response as you may have noticed. If your intent was to stir the pot then those who responded with anger or name calling fell into your trap, it worked and they should feel foolish. Assuming an honest question, you have your answer, don't do it.

    As I said this is a basic question and I strongly recommend that you immediately take a CC class. After that take another class that expands on what you already know. Read as many of these threads as possible, there is a lot of good information here. You have to sort through a bit of name calling but not as bad as other sites I have been to. Buy books and videos or get some from the library. You may want to consider putting the gun away until you can get your first class. Jail is such a harsh teacher. These classes, books, and videos will teach you how to survive the fight and how to survive the court system. You should also read you State laws. Sign up for your first class today. While you are waiting for the first day of class read the laws on this subject, after class read them again.
    NRA,
    Armed Citizens Legal Defense Fund
    http://armedcitizensnetwork.org/

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cojo View Post
    You are obviously a troll looking to elicit a rise out of legitimate posters on this board.
    Anyone who has the responsibility of concealed carry knows that your scenario is bogus, that responsible cc'ers don't shoot fleeing people in the back, your robbery notwithstanding.
    Either you are clueless or a Bradytroll. I vote troll.
    I think he is probably legit. But the Bradytroll is a possibility, asking a provocative question that makes us look like gung ho wannabe Deathwish Charles Bronson characters that would shoot people in the back, no questions asked. So for the record, we don't ever do that.
    Knarren und Zigarren!!!

  10. #60
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    How do you think your defense would hold up?
    “The fundamental force behind the Second Amendment is to empower the people and give them the greatest measure of authority over the tyranny of runaway government.” U.S. Rep. Bob Schaffer, 2002

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