FBI uses Chainsaw in Raid on Wrong Apartment - WHAT IF? FBI Uses Chainsaw In Raid On Wrong Fitchburg Apartment « CBS Boston
OK, so you wake up to a screaming chainsaw tearing through your front door. You do the logical thing to protect your family; you open fire with your battle rifle.
Now if it's the Feds, there will be lots of them and they'll probably slaughter your entire family, kittens and dogs included. But let's say you somehow survive. Maybe they back off, drag away their dead and wounded and take time to identify themselves.
What happens to you? You were in reasonable fear for the lives of your entire family. You did not wake to "knock, knock, FBI." You woke to a deafening chainsaw assault. Even if you can afford the best attorney, where do you stand?
I know the accomplice of the deceased fellow who attacked the young mother in Oklahoma is being charged with murder for that death. Does the FBI guy who screwed up the address, or the idiot to opted for the chainsaw (thus preventing any possible verbal communication) get charged for the injury or death of any invaders you shot?
My gut knows the answer, but inquiring minds want to know...
“The police of a State should never be stronger or better armed than the citizenry. An armed citizenry, willing to fight is the foundation of civil freedom.” Heinlein
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I've often wondered about a similar scenario. Say you awake to your front door getting kicked-in. Any logical person would shoot, especially if it was dark and you could not recognize the uniforms. That being said, what stops a criminal from buying a uniform to look the part? I'm interested to see what gets posted in this thread.
Very interesting questions. I'll have to give it some thought. I too look forward to the continuation of this topic.
Kathryn Johnston
Kathryn Johnston (June 26, 1914 - November 21, 2006)[1] was an elderly Atlanta, Georgia woman who was shot by undercover police officers in her home on Neal Street in northwest Atlanta on November 21, 2006, where she had lived for 17 years. Three officers had entered her home in what was later described as a 'botched' drug raid.[2][3][4] Officers cut off burglar bars and broke down her door using a no-knock warrant.[5] Police said Johnston fired at them and they fired in response; she fired one shot out the door over the officers' heads and they fired 39 shots, five or six of which hit her.[3][6] None of the officers were injured by her gunfire, but Johnston was killed by the officers. Police injuries were later attributed to "friendly fire" from each others' weapons
Sorry but this is ILLOGICAL, wrong, and irresponsible. Grabbing your rifle and shooting through your door before you can even see who you are killing is plain stupid! For all you know, you could be committing murder on the fire department who is breaking in everyone's door in the burning apartment complex because they are trying to clear the building and they know everyone is asleep.Originally Posted by Hamilton Felix
First my dogs would most likely respond along with alarm system, you will also be video recorded with recording being stored here and off site at two seperate locations as well as sent to my families phones. You will have to shoot the dogs to keep them off of you and any defensive traps that befalls you is your problem. My personal response is anyone kicking in my door day or night no matter what they are yelling or how they are dressed in the all out gun fight of their life. I do not fire warning shots, I may well be killed but several of them are going with me and my wife and attorney following a botched raid will do well. If I survive I will also do well. Live tape at six shows botched gov raid.
Since I am in my home where I have a right to be, the Texas Castle doctrine would also come into play.
I think that by firing on an FBI SWAT team, you won't need to worry about if your gonna go to jail or not.
It just won't matter. :)
KK
OK, I buy your reply. Suppose I am a BG--I now have a great idea--As I breakdown the door with an axe, I will yell out "FIRE DEPARTMENT" and I will yell out "YOU MUST GET OUT NOW---LARGE FIRE AND CHANCE OF EXPLOSION". Now what does the resident do? He welcomes the BG into his house. Obviously it is too easy to overthink this "what if", but the basic question still remains. You watch COPS on TV and you see a swat team breaking a door down as they yell "police"--they do this almost instantaneously so that the BGs don't flush the good stuff down the toilet--still just does not seem right.
I'm not certain I agree with you on that. First, you'd be shooting at someone holding the rest of the chain saw you can see cutting through your door. Second, at one point in that scenario would a law abiding citizen have reason to think "this could all just be an innocent mistake..."?
I think the problem is that as more and more people take responsibility for their safety inside their homes (because the police can't, at best they can investigate the murder or rape, but they can't prevent it), the police have to reconsider the use of no-knock warrants.
Most no-knock warrants are executed to prevent destruction of evidence. If an innocent homeowner has time to use a weapon then so would a criminal. so protection of the police is not a valid justification for a no-knock.
Is preservation of evidence really worth the risks involved to both innocent citizens and police? Can we reasonably expect an innocent law abiding citizen to remain calm, cool, and collected as someone cuts through their door like Jack Torrence?
And shouldn't the police expect that if they cut through the wrong home they might get shot at? Shouldn't they take the risk and responsibility of their errors?
The point I am making is to know what you target is before you pull the trigger. I would not shoot blindly at a door because their is a noise coming from the other side of it. I would arm myself, find a defensive position, and wait until I see who is coming in while calling 911.
If I saw a chainsaw cutting through my door, I would have a couple options.
1. Start shooting until the chainsaw stops. Stupid idea.
2. Grab my gun, position myself in a defensive spot, start calling 911, and wait until I can see who the intruder is.
3. Grab my gun, retreat. Retreating from my own home is not required in my state, but that doesnt mean its not an option.
"Sorry I killed the entire fire department and police force, I was just scared at the sound of whatever was outside my door and I'm just so trigger happy I cant help but shoot until the thing making noise shut up"
Also, it is my understanding that these entries are quick. Im sure that chainsaw ripped through the door in a couple seconds (they train to have it done fast). During those few seconds, it would take you a little while to realize that it is indeed your apartment door that is being cut. I would probably be frozen for a few seconds listening and trying to figure you what is going on. By the time you figure it out, I guarantee they will already be inside your apartment wearing police uniforms, yelling "police", and aiming their guns and flashlights at you.
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