Citizens Arrest?

[wickahoney]

Again I may be coming from a different point than many of you. As a retired LEo with 29 years at local, state and federal levels and graduation from the Idaho, Oregon Nevada and Federal Accademey plus several degrees in criminal justice I just don't worry about it that much.

The bottom line? I can do anything as a civilian as I could as a LEO other than arrest for PC and I have no immunity from criminal or civil redress if I guess wrong.

Is it a situation that requires/warrants deadly physical force? If so the parameters have been set. If the BG drops his gun do you let him walk away? From what? Murder? Nope Rape? Nope Assault/AWDW? Nope Petty theft? You betcha!!!

Again it's situational and up to you to understand that. The rules and what is socially acceptable is surely different in rural Idaho than say urban Florida.

Ross W Thomas
Owyhee County, ID

Oh, I usually have a pair of cuffs or at least a few cable ties in my hat bands. Bailing wire and a pair of pliers?

[OldOwl]

May I suggest this book?

Amazon.com: The Concealed Handgun Manual: How to Chose, Carry, and Shoot a Gun in Self Defense: Chris Bird: Books

It covers this topic extensively.

Bottom line, be prepared to be treated as a criminal. Make sure it's worth it if you must defend yourself, and you only have a split second to decide. With awesome power comes awesome responsibility.

[Landavazoaj]

Well, my opinion for what it is worth....NM Laws vary and the law varies from cop to cop, judge to judge, etc. The laws in NM are VERY vague at best. I think the best thing to do is to consider what exactly will be accomplished from you "arresting" someone. Also, just fyi in NM it is not called "arrest" it is called "detainment". A citizen detaining someone in NM should NEVER read the person miranda rights as then you are "impersonating a police officer".

I carry cuffs because of my job, but most do not. I look at this like I look at business. "Risk Vs. Reward" unless you're a 'bounty hunter' there will likely be no reward so look at it like Risk vs. consequences and if they're worth it. Assume that you will be arrested for false imprisonment, kidnapping, and assault. Think like a jury. If John Doe stole a candy bar and you witnessed him do it, chased him down, pointed your weapon at him and called the Police. Will a jury find this justifiable? Probably not.

If John Doe is Assaulting Jane Doe with a blunt object, say a pipe. You order Mr. Doe to stop with your firearm pointed at him. He continues to assault Ms. Doe at which time you tackle Mr. Doe, punch him a few times, and get on top of him to hold him down. Ms. Doe has a cracked head, broken ribs, etc. there are pictures of Ms. Doe bruised and battered, and Mr. Doe's blood alcohol level is at three times the legal defenition of intoxication. Will a jury charge you? Probably not.

There is no CLEAR CUT CASE of when you should become involved or when you're better off grinding your teeth. It's the age old problem of a split second to decide and months for the jury to deliberate on that split second decision.

Personally, I don't get involved unless it is an active assault, involves the elderly, or involves public dismay (fighting) which falls under assault. Shoplifting, etc I don't waste my time. LEO are so busy with murders, assaults, and rapes that a shoplifting is a priority 9 on a scale of 1-3...I think the best advice to give to anyone who carries is- are you prepared to lose your rights, spend time in jail possibly prison to defend what you think is right?

FYI: I am NOT an attorney this is NOT legal advice. This post has merely represented my personal opinion which holds no standing in any court of law.

[Austin]

One thing to consider is that you cannot get charged with "resisting a citizens arrest".

If you attempt to citizens arrest someone (think security guard) and they knock you out, it is just your bad luck.

[Glock Fan]

For those wishing to play "Superman" in a domestic case (like a situation where you observe a male beating a female) be aware that once you restrained the male watch out for the female. In many cases, once you've got "her man" in cuffs, she'll attack you

Every case is different. Expect the unexpected.



gf

[Glock Fan]

Originally Posted by Landavazoaj

Experinced that several times.They absolutely HATE eachother until you're there. Then it's the whole the enemy of my enemy is my friend mentality.

I have to disagree with you on the "superman" claim. I work as a Security guard (boo's I hear them now lol) and I have gone to this situation far too many times to count (not your avg. guard or avg. company). Anywho, people want to help, they're just afraid to help. Afraid of being hurt, afraid of being arrested, afraid that the criminal has more rights than they do, afraid that people like you will say they were trying to play superman, although 20 years ago it was considered their civic duty.

It is because of our society that people are beat to death in crowded malls and sports arena's. Women are mugged on the way to their car, women are raped because the criminal knows MOST PEOPLE WILL NOT GET INVOLVED.

Never meant to imply that you were playing "superman". It was a warning to others who feel the need to patrol the streets with their brand new CC license/permit and their "CCW Badge". I've heard many cases where an untrained individual gets seriously injured when trying to "help" in a domestic situation. Keep in mind that you can help a great deal in a domestic sitiuation by simply asking if everyting is o.k. You don't necessarily have to "tackle" anyone. I've encountered several situations where a male and female were arguing and the male was acting out violently. From a safe distance I asked "Everything ok?" In one case the male said "f**k off or you're next." At that point I backed off and proceeded to dial 911. The guy said "who are you calling?" I told him "My sick grandmother." At that point, the female said something like "Oh s**t, I think he's calling the po-po." The couple hopped into their car and left. Another case I asked if everything was ok. At that point, the female ran towards me and said "He's trying to kill me." The guy freaked out and left, yelling at the lady "Don't come home b***h!" When the police arrived, they took my statement and assisted the lady. The lady stayed in contact with me and still sends me an email from time to time. That was the turning point in her life where she was able to get out of a very abusive relationship.

If you're properly trained, great, otherwise it's best that you be a good witness.



gf

[rrc1962]

There was a story on TruTV or one of those other reality channels where a guy opened up on his wife with an AK47 in front of the divorce court. A CCW took a stand and shot at the guy not know he was wearing a vest. He returned fire and killed the CCW.

My general rule of thumb is that I only consider using deadly force if MY life is in danger. Other people have the same right to defend themselves as I do. It's their choice to exercise that right....or not. There is just too much at stake. Even if everything goes down perfectly, you could get sued by a passer by for causing undue emotional distress because they saw someone get shot.

I totally agree with GF. Just making it known to a BG that someone has seen him is many times enough to send him running. Most criminals are just looking for an easy score and witnesses present a problem.