Use Of Deadly Force : Justified or Not

[dc1263]

Simple assault is not a justified use of deadly force, I understand that.

Are broken bones and blood beyond reasonable force and justification for the use of deadly force ?

What if a dude twice my size pushes me around then punches me in the mouth and breaks my jaw ?

Or say he knocks a couple of teeth out of my mouth and bloodies my nose

Would that be considered "Serious Physical Injury" or "Great Bodily Harm" as defined by The Law ?

Can anyone here point me to the laws pertaining to the "Use of Deadly Force Against A Person"

I recently took the Concealed Carry Class here in NC ( I've had my CT permit for 20+ years now) and was surprised that the only place I can find reference to these laws of self defense was in the training handbook,
Thought there would be a statute or some other reference to the Common Laws ?

You guys are great, Lots of good info here.

[mistertaco]

I could not find specifics in the General Statutes for serious bodily injury, etc either. There must be some information from public records of court cases related to use of deadly force. I'd like to know also.

The terms are subjective and to what level of injury, we don't know. It's up to the arresting officers, I suppose. And the jury if it gets that far. The criminal records of the person, eye witness accounts, etc.

It gets really messy.

The aftermath of using justified deadly force scares me more than actually using a firearm. One guy in class actually said, Shit, I'm just gonna carry mace." Not that he was serious about doing do, but did show how confusing the entire subject is.

[2beararms]

If you honestly FEAR that your life is in danger your check list is complete. If you are going to try to analyze the situation in terms of if your legally justified, the outcome will most likely be that you will be seriously dead.

If the dude breaks your jaw that may not be justification for deadly force, however if he is winding up to hit you AGAIN then it may be. It is what MAY happen, not the blood that has been spilled.

This is DEFENSE not vigilantism or getting even. If he breaks your jaw and walks away and you shoot him that is murder. If he breaks your jaw and reaches for a pipe and you shoot him that is self-defense.

The reason you are in the fight in the first place may well play into the story, never in your favor. If bar fights are your thing then don't be carrying a gun, you will wind up in deep.

It is really all common sense.

[astute]

The use of deadly force may or may not be good in the cases you cite. One can only act on what he feels at the time and if deadly force is applied, then keep your mouth shut and let your lawyer sort it out with the authorities. Even the most justifiable defense can be turned into a murder charge and visa-versa by prosecutors.

[GeneralSumter]

Is NC a "stand your ground" state?

The reason I ask is because my instructor, here in SC where we are a stand your ground state, said that many factors are judged in the use of deadly force. The fists of a 250lb man can be considered deadly weapons and if he has the potential to knock you out AND take your gun, then he has the potential to use lethal force on you. Therefore, our instructor, a cop, told us to shoot before he does that.

I believe that is a very loose interpretation especially when the determination will be left to the jury, not the cop. I would recommend loud verbal commands to the assailant prior to drawing such as "STOP" or "BACK AWAY". This will get the attention of possible witnesses prior to an incident and will hopefully prove you to be the defender, not the instigator.

Then, if possible, present your weapon prior to firing. I believe it's only brandishing if you present your firearm in an offensive manner (at least in SC). This case would be defensive and is sometimes effective in de-escalating the situation. If you have to draw your weapon and the BG retreats, call the Police anyway so that you can tell them the situation and why you presented your firearm. Otherwise the BG may try to turn the table on you (he pulled a gun on me!)

That's a long answer for, your fate is in the hands of the jury of your peers. But certain steps can be made in your favor.

[dc1263]

Just a scenario ya know, because fear is not defined, it's a personal emotion.

Don't do the bar scene anymore, or clubs, or concerts, don't care for big crowds and lots of people.

I'll go out of my way to avoid conflict whenever possible, especially while driving !

Not looking for advise per say, Just like to know what other people are thinking.

I do not want to be responsible, either legally or morally for the death of another person

Thanks for your input

[Red Hat]

GeneralSumter is correct. I don't think that NC has a Castle Doctrine so it would be hard to justify deadly force on an assault. In SC as other States that have a CD on the books if you have a right to be somewhere you have the right to protect yourself and others.

[Ektarr]

Originally Posted by dc1263

I do not want to be responsible, either legally or morally for the death of another person

Quite laudable . . . and might get you killed if you feel more strongly about that than you do your Right to protect yourself! The decision to 'stop the threat' at whatever cost necessary might need to be made in a nanosecond. If you're going to weigh how it might make you feel afterward, and whether it's moral, even if it is legal, it could be game set and match with you as the loser.

[dc1263]

RE : I do not want to be responsible, either legally or morally for the death of another person

What I mean by that is, I wish to go through life peacefully, I don't look for trouble.

However, if trouble happens to find me, guess who's going down !

Your absolutely right though, If you have to think, your dead.

That is why we run through the scenarios, isn't it ? So we can think through the threat before hand ?

Then if something should happen, we can fall back on our training and "stop the threat", rather than try to think it through, or weigh how it's going to make us feel.

Cause we've already done that, right ? Please don't misunderstand me.

I feel very strongly for my right to self defense, but No, I don't "WANT" to kill anybody.

[Wolfling68]

Legally, what it will come down to is what the Jury feels. This is the legal system, right and wrong, truth and justice have nothing to do with it. It is about winning. Is your lawyer better than the prosecutor, does the prosecutor think he can win? Damn, I've become cynical.....anyway, the Florida statues say fear for your life or grevious bodily injury, or to prevent a major felony like kidnapping.
My personal feeling is I will not shoot someone unless I am willing to go to jail for the rest of my life. This means I am saving my life, or my family. Probably someone else's child. Someone's money, a bar fight, etc, just not worth it. Now, I will probably not go to jail for self defence, but I just might. It had better be worth it.