After the shooting is over..

robbhamic · #1 07-23-2009, 04:57 PM

What happens next? Have a plan. CLICK HERE for blog post/ article.

armyman_83 · #2 07-31-2009, 10:33 AM

Good Post!

matthewaynelson · #3 07-31-2009, 05:18 PM

Agreed. Mentally preparing yourself for "after the engagement" is of vital importance!

Quote:

Originally Posted by matthewaynelson

... being able to compose yourself following the adrenaline dump that results from a firefight will be crucial to your ability to gather the details needed to provide emergency responders an accurate picture of what transpired. LEO’s will be using your statements and the information you provide as a basis for determining whether your actions were justified… as well as any others who witnessed the action. So, you'll need to be able to communicate the perceived threat, and that your ONLY desire was to STOP the threat with clarity!

Good and thorough training will give you the advantage. Training is KEY!

robbhamic · #4 08-01-2009, 10:15 AM

Thank you. I appreciate the feedback.

AZSATT · #5 08-02-2009, 01:06 PM

YouTube - Don't Talk to the Police 1

Here's one of several links to Professor James Duane's now-famous presentation on the 5th amendment. The whole presentation is almost 30 mins long, so it's been broken down into 6 or 7 segments.

I highly encourage my CCW students to not only take the time to watch the entire presentation, but also to heed the advice this attorney (as well as the attorney for AZ who compiled the CCW material) offers.

Don't talk to the police.

In training, I use LEO training to support WHY this should be very much a part of one's plan. I use a LEO-involved shooting as an example. Unlike the police, you as a citizen will not have an entire agency coming to your rescue to ensure you DON'T talk to anyone before they collect all relevant evidence and statements. The agency KNOWS that immediately after a shooting your ability to clearly and accurately "replay" what really happened has been greatly compromised due to the adreneline dump and stress of a deadly force encounter. However, they will expect YOU - acting alone as a private citizen - to do so. You're likely going to be at the police station for hours either way, you may as well have a capable and competent pro-2A attorney en route. Professor Duane offers several examples and scenarios explaining over and over WHY it's a very good idea to NOT talk to the police first.

Simple example: "how many shots did you fire?" After an adreneline dump, you may or may not be able to answer this accurately. (Probably not, unless you're a SOCOM operative who is so used to being shot at that killing someone is just another day in the office... which would paint an ugly picture if this is YOU and you just shot a BG and then are very cool and collected.)

As soon as you begin to contradict yourself, OR as soon as witnesses begin to contradict your statement to the police, the investigation can take some seriously unexpected turns. Remember, like the 2nd amendment, the 5th amendment is a RIGHT to now screw yourself over by getting diarrhea of the mouth at the most inopportune time in your gun-carrying life. Just MHO.

Oh, and from experience - the "presumption of innocence," while nice and colorful in black and white law, is a wonderful thing - but I won't ever hang my hat on it. Black and white law doesn't stay that way when it's rolling around in a dirty, gray world.

matthewaynelson · #6 08-02-2009, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AZSATT

... Professor James Duane's now-famous presentation on the 5th amendment. Don't talk to the police.

Wow, just watched the whole lecture. Good stuff from both Prof. Duane as well as Officer Bruch. Thanks for sharing AZSATT!

Quote:

Originally Posted by AZSATT

... After an adrenaline dump, you may or may not be able to answer. Probably not, unless you're a SOCOM operative used to being shot at and killing someone is just another day in the office.

The major difference is experience. An experienced operator has debriefed following a firefight many times. That doesn't make the experience any less difficult to process, just means you’ve learned how to organize important details into useful data so that you can document the situation and communicate your actions more effectively. But, if this is your first time to fire a weapon at another living soul—somebody’s son, brother, husband, father—and especially if you took a life, you’re likely going to find yourself overwhelmed by the experience!

It’s definitely a similar analogy to the one that Officer Bruch used in the lecture. The investigator is an expert at his job. Likely has done thousands of interviews and knows every trick in the book on how to gather details. It’s like climbing into the ring as a first time boxer to take on a gold medal, trained and experienced boxer!

robbhamic · #7 08-03-2009, 11:04 AM

I totally agree with you. I tell my students to give a basic description of the event, identify weapons used, witnesses, tell the cops that they felt 'imminent jeopardy' and 'lawyer up.' Great info. I may use it in my teachings. Thanks again.