Do you realize other countries have access to your personal information?
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Do you realize other countries have access to your personal information?

This is a discussion on Do you realize other countries have access to your personal information? within the Firearm Politics & 2nd Amendment Issues forums, part of the Main Category category; I was doing some reasearch on the Government project called Project Gunrunner. While reading on Wiki I came accross this ...

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    bigrebnc1861 is offline Banned
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    Default Do you realize other countries have access to your personal information?

    I was doing some reasearch on the Government project called Project Gunrunner. While reading on Wiki I came accross this little gem.

    Along with a number of Caribbean police forces, many countries are formally provided with eTrace software with access to American gun owner names, addresses and personal information, including

    Project Gunrunner - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    So I did a search and heres what I found out.

    The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) is the federal agency that is authorized by Congress to stem firearms-related violent crime and to regulate the firearms industry in America. ATF’s National Tracing Center (NTC) assists domestic and international law enforcement agencies by tracing the origin of firearms that have been recovered in criminal investigations.

    ATF Fact Sheet - eTrace: Internet-Based Firearms Tracing and Analysis

    Have we been sold out by the self promoting watchers of the second Amendment? Your thoughts please

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    While the ATF's theory of traceability might be sound, allowing foreign governments (who knows who else) to view vital information like names and addresses of gun owners is totally irresponsible and out of bounds! To me, this is just another example of our government being out of control and not looking out for our best interests as US citizens. 2012 is coming, use it wisely! DO NOT RE-ELECT ANYONE!
    Kill them all and let God sort them out!

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    Default Not quite accurate

    The ATF doesn't have a list of of gun owners' names. They have a list of gun purchasers for a certain period after the purchase is made. The federal government is not allowed to keep a permanent registration list of guns or owners.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cawpin View Post
    The federal government is not allowed to keep a permanent registration list of guns or owners.
    And so... That doesn't mean that they aren't doing it. The government is sooo trustworthy. They wouldn't lie to us.
    War to the Knife, Knife to the hilt.
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    It seems that this is only referring to guns recovered by authorities, ie involved in a crime. It does make a certain amount of sense to trace those back as far as possible and try to figure out the steps on how it ended up where it ended up. Would I mind having Germany get access to run a serial number of a gun that somehow ended up there? Personally, no, the only way for this to happen was for it to have been stolen from me in which case I would like to know when it was recovered. I probably would not get it back but I would know it's out of circulation.

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    bigrebnc1861 is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by cawpin View Post
    The ATF doesn't have a list of of gun owners' names. They have a list of gun purchasers for a certain period after the purchase is made. The federal government is not allowed to keep a permanent registration list of guns or owners.
    Yes they do. Here’s some choice eTrace quotes from a Police Chief Magazine’s Officer Safety
    An individual trace also often identifies a straw purchaser—an individual who claims that the firearm will be for his or her own use, but is actually purchasing it for someone else. That someone else is generally prohibited by law from purchasing or possessing a firearm, or seeks to hide the firearm acquisition. Hidden purchasers include felons, active criminals, and persons with clear criminal intent.

    The straw purchaser becomes party to the crime by placing a lethal weapon in a criminal’s hands. Straw purchasing is never an isolated criminal act: it is a conspiracy that frequently reveals active criminal associations and enterprises, including gang and narcotics activity.

    Police Chief Magazine - View Article

    Why would another country have a need to acess my gun ownership records?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jg1967 View Post
    It seems that this is only referring to guns recovered by authorities, ie involved in a crime. It does make a certain amount of sense to trace those back as far as possible and try to figure out the steps on how it ended up where it ended up. Would I mind having Germany get access to run a serial number of a gun that somehow ended up there? Personally, no, the only way for this to happen was for it to have been stolen from me in which case I would like to know when it was recovered. I probably would not get it back but I would know it's out of circulation.
    It always starts looking innocent and for the good of the people until the people no longer have their rights. If their is a tool to access the information of a stolen gun by another country, then there is a tool that has your personal information on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTTAHERE View Post
    While the ATF's theory of traceability might be sound, allowing foreign governments (who knows who else) to view vital information like names and addresses of gun owners is totally irresponsible and out of bounds! To me, this is just another example of our government being out of control and not looking out for our best interests as US citizens. 2012 is coming, use it wisely! DO NOT RE-ELECT ANYONE!
    The tool is now in place. Interpol has already been given authority to arrest any American citizen and interpol has access to this information

    INTERPOL given preferences over US Citizens ... - CNET Speakeasy Forums

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    Quote Originally Posted by cawpin View Post
    The ATF doesn't have a list of of gun owners' names. They have a list of gun purchasers for a certain period after the purchase is made. The federal government is not allowed to keep a permanent registration list of guns or owners.
    While it is accurate to say that this is what the law as written says, it does not describe objective reality WRT how to BATFE operates. As far as I can tell, the NICS has never deleted a single record of successful transactions (gun purchase records including name of recipient) in the entire time it's been in operation. Likewise, the gun registration list prohibition is on AUTOMATED or ELECTRONIC records which can be accessed instantly and widely. All gun purchases from federally licensed dealers have resulted in a permanent, PAPER registration record being generated for BATFE's use.

    There have been numerous attempts by ATF to out-right IGNORE the McClure-Volkmer Amendment which prohibits them from spending one thin dime on the equipment, man power, or time to do the data entry to turn that mountain of paperwork into a computerized database. Each time, the Congress has had to pass another act to smack their hands and claw back monies from the ATF for the wastages, but they continually and persistently keep trying. When they figured out that successful NICS checks would be really good surrogate for a database of ATF form 4473s and claimed that they needed to retain those records automaticly generated during the normal operation of the NICS for 30 days, then 60 days, then 90 days, then 180 days, then forever, for the stated purposes of system reliability auditing and debugging.

    Originally, the form 4473 died with the business that generated it. Now, when the ATF and local government manages to drive a gun dealer out of business, they have to surrender their 4473s to the ATF (read: easier to archive gun registration records). Now, the ATF has an e4473 application for licensed dealers to use locally to generate electronic 4473 records to "eliminate errors" in the processing of the forms. When dealers using those programs are put out of business, those electronic records will go back to the ATF, and so the ATF will have electronic records of private gun ownership without, itself, having spend a thin dime on the data entry process.

    Form 4473 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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    That Gun Control Act of 1968 is nefarious.
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