If Trayvon Martin had a firearm would he be alive today? - Page 3
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If Trayvon Martin had a firearm would he be alive today?

This is a discussion on If Trayvon Martin had a firearm would he be alive today? within the Firearm Politics & 2nd Amendment Issues forums, part of the Main Category category; Here is why he won't be prosecuted. You cannot continue to beat even the aggressor when he is trying to ...

  1. #21
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    Here is why he won't be prosecuted. You cannot continue to beat even the aggressor when he is trying to get away or is in danger of great bodily harm......THAT IS THE LAW. And here it is. People that are saying what is legal in Florida when you don't know the law is what is feeding this freenzy. HERE IS THE LAW. Make sure you read 2(a) and 2 (b). I have bolded it for you.

    776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
    (1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
    (2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
    (a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
    (b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.
    BTTBBOB
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by macmanjim View Post
    Exactly and there's one minute of time we have no clear idea of what happened. Even so, it seems to me Zimmerman was a wannabe cop. He was too intent on interdicting Martin even though the 911 dispatcher said to stay in the car. Unfortunately, we may never know the truth.
    Um...please site where the dispatcher told Zimmerman to stay in the car. Cause I have listened to the 911 call about 20 times, and he never once stated that. Also, how exactly was he being a cop? Because he was following a suspicious person? That is what your chastising him over?
    “One of the illusions of life is that the present hour is not the critical, decisive one.” – Ralph Waldo Emerson

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefighterchen View Post
    In this hypothetical situation, did he shoot Zimmerman in the front or back? Before or after he was on top of Zimmerman? Before or after he beat Zimmerman's head into the ground?
    You assume that what you have been feed is true. Shot in front or back? Before he was on top of Zimmerman or after he beat Zimmerman head into the ground. The likelyhood of someone turning around and assulting someone who is chasing or following them is not likely. If it is true what you hypothesized; Trayvon still had the right to protect himself. 9MM VS unarmed kid still does not equal death. There is a legal issue involving "Disparity of Force".

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bighouse Doc View Post
    Trayvon broke Zimmerman's nose and was smashing his head on the sidewalk when he was shot.

    That is why he wasn't arrested.

    Now it is trial by news media lynch mob!

    -Doc
    And you know this because you were told this by the smae media lynch mob. Makes no sinse.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mac357 View Post
    If Zimmerman had left the kid alone as directed by authorities, he would not have got his ass kicked by a kid and would not have had any reason to use deadly force. He could have just took the whippin and walked away and reported the assault to the police and martin would be in jail. From what I hav read Martin had a record with some pretty serious charges already. He probably would not quailfy for a permit anyway. I find it funny that the label Zimmerman as a white hispanic in the liberal media. And where the hell is Al ,The race baitor, and the other so-called civil rights guys where all the black on black crime occurs? All that matters not to them, only when the suspect or other party is anything but AA. I am for Zimmerman being arrested, but the law will decide that considered by the current laws on self defense in Florida. And then you got the cowards from the Black Panthers, the black KKK, putting a bounty on the man's head. The **** is a mess, all over the Civil Rights guys wanting to continue to use race every chance they get.
    I agree with the first part what you have said. However, what I have read in three(3) different FL papers point to a totally different story of this kid. If the people in authority had done the correct things in the beginning, we would not be where are at and there would also be no need for Rev Al or Jackson.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by leadsender View Post
    You assume that what you have been feed is true. Shot in front or back? Before he was on top of Zimmerman or after he beat Zimmerman head into the ground. The likelyhood of someone turning around and assulting someone who is chasing or following them is not likely. If it is true what you hypothesized; Trayvon still had the right to protect himself. 9MM VS unarmed kid still does not equal death. There is a legal issue involving "Disparity of Force".
    I was asking questions about the OP's hypothetical scenario, not assuming aspects of the real incident (although, from reading the police reports, listening to the 911 calls, and eye witness accounts [although they were filtered through the media], yes I do believe TM was on top smashing GZ head into the concrete at some point.)

    Unless the firearm was brought out before the physical confrontation, the disparity was in favor of TM (being 6'3" 160+ lbs 10 years younger and in great shape) vs GZ (being 5'10" 200 lbs and out of shape [winded just from maintaining visual contact]).

    Quote Originally Posted by leadsender View Post
    I agree with the first part what you have said. However, what I have read in three(3) different FL papers point to a totally different story of this kid. If the people in authority had done the correct things in the beginning, we would not be where are at and there would also be no need for Rev Al or Jackson.
    What exactly did the people in authority do wrong?
    “One of the illusions of life is that the present hour is not the critical, decisive one.” – Ralph Waldo Emerson

  7. #27
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    Let's place Leadsender in this situation. Leadersender is a 6'1" 300 plus lb's 53 year old black man who works out and trains. I have a valid CPL/CCW license with reciprocal in the state of FL. He sometimes wears a Carhartt hoodie on job sites, his college hoodie at home coming and football games, workout hoodies to sweat and keep warm and a hunter orange hoodie so that he does not get shot during hunting season. Leadsender is coming from the store and going home to the friends house that he is visiting. My situational awareness picks up on a car that is following me. The car is unmarked and the person in the car is not in uniform. The individual gets out of the car and does not present a badge or ID and tries to ask me questions that he has no legal right or authority to ask. I ask who are you to be asking me anything. You get upset because I speak up and back and question you. Shots are fired and I happen to be a better shot. I can guarantee you that as a black man and that is taught in CPL/CCW classes that you can expect that your are going to be hand cuffed, placed in the back of a police car, taken to jail and arrested. In addition, I would have been subjected to drug and alcohol testing. The incidnet scene would have been processed, evidence collected and preserved. If Trayvon(Leadsender) was of age and had a weapon and were able to present the case as stated he would be alive and able to use the stand your ground law. The reason why we are in this position is that people in authority did not do the JUST or right things that they should have.

  8. #28
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    Yes, I do think the so-called 'Stand Your ground' law would have protected him. There is not a doubt in my mind that Zimmerman was the aggressor, as he had the gun and Martin didn't. Zimmerman has shown us the absolute best way to avoid prosecution. you attakc someone, and when oyu fiond he is kicking your butt, you pull a gun and kill him. You are the only one who has a story to tell, so the cops will buy whatever you tell them.. Works out nicely. For Zimmerman
    A man without a gun is a subject; a man with a gun is a citizen.
    I'll keep my freedom, my guns and my money. You can keep THE CHANGE.
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefighterchen View Post
    Um...please site where the dispatcher told Zimmerman to stay in the car. Cause I have listened to the 911 call about 20 times, and he never once stated that. Also, how exactly was he being a cop? Because he was following a suspicious person? That is what your chastising him over?
    The dispatcher asked zimmerman to stay in the car. If you didn't hear something to that effect, clean your ears. His attitude, based on what he said and his past history of calling the cops, tells me he's a little overzealous in his approach as a neighborhood WATCHER. Not a neighborhood pursuer, cop, or even private detective or security guard. The bottom line is that had he stayed in the car, he wouldn't have gotten his ass kicked and Martin would be alive.
    If, before undertaking some action, you must obtain the permission of society—you are not free, whether such permission is granted to you or not. Only a slave acts on permission. A permission is not a right. Ayn Rand


  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillip Gain View Post
    I know you're just trying to stir the **** as usual. But here's a relevant response:

    If (as Zimmerman claims) he was following Martin, and confronted him verbally - then NO.

    If Zimmerman was chasing Martin, running him down, with verbal threats of violence or physical acts of violence - then YES.

    I've said it 1000 times on here - and YOU KNOW THE ANSWER, even though you continue to post dumb crap like this: "A person is justified in using deadly force only when he reasonably believes himself to be in imminent danger of bodily harm or death."

    Incidentally - the big questions in this case, are "Did Zimmerman put Martin in imminent danger of bodily harm or death?" Or "Did Zimmerman escalate the encounter to physical violence?" An affirmative answer to either question negates his claim of self-defense, since either a) Martin would then become the one defending himself or b) if both parties escalated the situation, then it becomes an "encounter between two willing combatants." Either scenario leaves Zimmerman open for criminal charges.

    So far, the answer to those questions is: "The eyewitness accounts, recorded 911 calls, and physical evidence do not support either assertion." That is why Zimmerman was not arrested.
    I like what you say when you define when you can and can not shoot. It needs to be sais 1000 more time. That is most important. However, I can guarantee that both side will present witnesses to support there side. You have the lady that the police would not take her report and now you have the guy stating that he saw Trayvon on top of Zimmernam. Witness ID is like that ole college experiment where a person comes into the room and shoots the teacher. How many discriptions will you have? As many as the number of students in that class and more. Deep down, I believe that most people believe that this was a bad shoot. Then again there is the courts.

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