Suggested MI Gun Buster Sign Amendment...
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Suggested MI Gun Buster Sign Amendment...

This is a discussion on Suggested MI Gun Buster Sign Amendment... within the Firearm Politics & 2nd Amendment Issues forums, part of the Main Category category; Businesses seem to want it both ways. They want to be able to deny legal carriers their right to carry ...

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    ezkl2230's Avatar
    ezkl2230 is offline I am a FREEMAN!!!
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    Default Suggested MI Gun Buster Sign Amendment...

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    Businesses seem to want it both ways. They want to be able to deny legal carriers their right to carry on the premises of their businesses, but they also don't want to advertise that fact until it suits them. This creates many embarrassing situations for carriers when they enter a business, just to be told that they aren't welcome because of an unpublished policy that the business enforces. In Michigan, all that is required of businesses is "reasonable communication." That can be a sign, a warning from an employee who happens to see that you are carrying, or an entry in the employee handbook (for employees), but there is nothing that actually requires them to post a sign to notify you of anything before you enter their premises so that you know beforehand whether you actually want to do business with them - they can drop that little surprise on you whenever it suits them.

    So I sent the following to one of the senators with whose office I have been working for quite a while to address firearms issues:


    A bill to amend MCL 28.425 (Michigan's firearms code - added) by adding SUBSECTION P, PUBLIC NOTIFICATION OF FIREARMS POLICY

    28.425P Public notification of policy prohibiting the carry of firearms on premises; “premises” defined; presumption; violation; penalties; indemnity.

    SEC. 5P

    (1) Any commercial or non-profit entity enforcing a policy prohibiting the carry of firearms on their privately owned or operated premises shall conspicuously post notification of same. Said notification shall consist of signage that shall measure not less than 5”x7” and shall be affixed prominently at all exterior entrances of premises owned or operated by said commercial or non-profit entity.

    (2) As used in subsection (1), "premises" does not include parking areas of the places identified under subsection (1).

    (3) There shall be a presumption that any commercial or non-profit entity not conspicuously posting a notice of prohibition of firearms carry as required in subsection (1) permits firearms carry.

    (4) Any commercial or non-profit entity enforcing a policy prohibiting the carry of firearms on their privately owned or operated premises without conspicuously posting notification of same as required in subsection (1) shall be guilty of a civil infraction, and shall be liable for costs incurred by law enforcement responding to a firearms carry related call of trespass.

    (5) A legal firearms owner entering any commercial or non-profit entity enforcing a policy prohibiting the carry of firearms on their privately owned or operated premises without conspicuously posting notification of same as required in subsection (1) shall be indemnified with regard to a charge of trespass.
    For years, businesses have had the upper hand, and all of the responsibility has fallen on the shoulders of legal carriers to know the policies of every business they enter, whether it has been posted or not. So businesses have been able to keep the carry community guessing.

    That needs to stop.

    The carry community has jumped through all of the hoops in order to exercise their Second Amendment right to carry; they have been fingerprinted, background checked, taught, tested - and they shelled out the money from their own pockets for the exercise of that right. They DESERVE to know if a business is anti-carry BEFORE THEY ENTER THE PREMISES. Turn about is fair play. And maybe it will also cause some businesses to actually stop and think about whether they truly want to advertise to bad guys that no one will be able to stop them.
    NEW Definition of Gun Control: The theory that 20 grade school children found dead in their classrooms, most shot multiple times while waiting for the police, is somehow morally superior to the principal explaining to police how the attacker got that fatal bullet wound.

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    dcselby1's Avatar
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    I haven't had a problem with no gun signs. Been carrying a while now and have not seen one. Live in Battle Creek.
    Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man gainst his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia...Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

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    ezkl2230's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcselby1 View Post
    I haven't had a problem with no gun signs. Been carrying a while now and have not seen one. Live in Battle Creek.
    They're beginning to pop up in a lot of places in Grand Rapids. The problem isn't so much with the signs you see, it's with the businesses that haven't put up anything to let you know that they are gun free but will still call the police on you if they figure out that you're carrying - especially a problem for OC. Check out MI Open Carry and other OC web sites, and you will see than quite a few folks across the state have had their share of run-ins from companies that don't post their policy, but still enforce it. All I'm saying with this bill is, let's take the guesswork out of it for everyone. The carry community doesn't deserve to be dissed like this, but if you're going to do it, at least have the guts to be up front about it and deal with the possible loss of income and increase in criminal activity that may accompany it.
    NEW Definition of Gun Control: The theory that 20 grade school children found dead in their classrooms, most shot multiple times while waiting for the police, is somehow morally superior to the principal explaining to police how the attacker got that fatal bullet wound.

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    Default Re: Suggested MI Gun Buster Sign Amendment...

    Saw my first no firearms sign in Battle Creek at the movie theater in the mall.

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    It is called CCW for a reason. Out of sight, out of mind.
    There are thousands of signs that say Speed Limit 55 too. So does that mean everyone drives a maximum of 55 MPH?

    Speaking of Michigan, did that Obama Phone Lady get elected to the Detroit City Council?
    Detroit councilwoman to Obama: We voted for you, now bail us out - Fox 2 News Headlines
    Tolerance of the intolerant leads to the destruction of tolerance. “You are also reminded that any inappropriate remarks or jokes concerning security may result in your arrest,” in the land of the free.

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    dcselby1's Avatar
    dcselby1 is offline Denny
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    Quote Originally Posted by ezkl2230 View Post
    They're beginning to pop up in a lot of places in Grand Rapids. The problem isn't so much with the signs you see, it's with the businesses that haven't put up anything to let you know that they are gun free but will still call the police on you if they figure out that you're carrying - especially a problem for OC. Check out MI Open Carry and other OC web sites, and you will see than quite a few folks across the state have had their share of run-ins from companies that don't post their policy, but still enforce it. All I'm saying with this bill is, let's take the guesswork out of it for everyone. The carry community doesn't deserve to be dissed like this, but if you're going to do it, at least have the guts to be up front about it and deal with the possible loss of income and increase in criminal activity that may accompany it.
    Thanks for enlightening me. Makes sense, now. Denny
    Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man gainst his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia...Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

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