Pointless No Gun Signs - Can You Carry In Florida Airports?

[magicman007]

2beararms: Thanks for the info. That's pretty much what most of us have been saying (and expecting from FDLE as an answer). There have been some doubters, and thus the question was put to FDLE.

[45fella]

Originally Posted by 2beararms

I can tell you this much. Outside of the areas covered under Federal authority at least in Palm Beach County, airports are policed by the County Sheriff's office. At PBIA, I spoke to the Captain in charge of the detail and was assured that any person, with or without a vailid Concealed Weapons License, and without valid Law Enforcement credentials found to be in posession of any firearm loaded or unloaded not encased for transport and in the process of being claimed for transport on any premise of the airport terminal beyond the curb would be properly gifted with a pair of shiney new bracelets, an all expense paid vacation at the lovely Palm Beach County specialty hotel next door, and a guest appearance in the dynamic new game show Court Life, meet the judge.

Carry ANYWHERE in a terminal of an airport in Florida is illegal period!

You may argue your point in the game show but you will not win on the airport floor.

Couple things:
First, cops are the last people you want to ask about a very important question pertaining to law. Cops are hardly an educated bunch, high school diplomas/GED's are all thats required of them. Cops can arrest you for anything, doesn't mean they're right. Thats what "wrongful arrest" is for.

Second, part of the question here is the real definition of the terms "sterile area" and "non-sterile area". There's a sign right before you enter the line to go through security, into a "sterile area", that says, "no weapons beyond this point." If you are not allowed beyond the curb or parking lot they would have the signs out there saying that.

Also, 790.06(12) says "any passenger terminal". Depending on which definition you read the terminal can be where passengers board and deplane an aircraft.....or it can say the entire building from the curb to the plane. So, its another grey area. "passenger terminal" to me means the concourses and gate areas AFTER you pass through security into the "sterile area." Because everyone that goes to an airport is not a passenger. If it just said, "terminal", I would have to say then that you cannot carry a weapon anywhere, period.

We'll see.

FDLE answered me: Looks like they are no longer allowed to give interpretations of law, they used to do it, I did it about 7 years ago and they answered my question.

Mr. XXXXXX:
The Division of Licensing has no jurisdiction to interpret statutes, issue opinions, or render legal advice about the legality and illegality of matters not strictly related to the issuance of concealed weapons licenses. The Division is given very narrow responsibility under section 790.06, Florida Statutes. We can issue licenses to qualified citizens; deny licenses to applicants who are not qualified; or revoke or suspend licenses in instances where licensees have committed disqualifying crimes. Outside of that, the Division has no authority to discuss the legality of concealed weapons issues and crimes pertaining to violations of the concealed weapons law. Please consult an attorney or State Attorney's Office.

Amanda F. Herring, Supervisor, Florida Department of Agriculture
Public Inquiry Section
(850)245-5665 Office (850)245-5655 Fax


I contacted an attorney to look into it for me. I asked him specifically to get an "interpretation from the state", because thats all that matters. His opinion or anyone elses opinions are meaningless. Once you get the interpretation of the law, it IS the law and its exactly what an attorney would go by if they had a real case to deal with. I've done this a couple times with the FAA to interpret an aviation law for us that was a little hard to make heads or tails of.

I'll post it as soon as I get it.

[netentity]

Originally Posted by 45fella

Couple things:
First, cops are the last people you want to ask about a very important question pertaining to law. Cops are hardly an educated bunch, high school diplomas/GED's are all thats required of them. Cops can arrest you for anything, doesn't mean they're right. Thats what "wrongful arrest" is for.

Yes. It happens here in Nevada as well quite often.

Second, part of the question here is the real definition of the terms "sterile area" and "non-sterile area". There's a sign right before you enter the line to go through security, into a "sterile area", that says, "no weapons beyond this point." If you are not allowed beyond the curb or parking lot they would have the signs out there saying that.

All airports have those signs. That signage is maintained by TSA, not the State or jurisdiction that operates the airport. I just came back from Houston Hobby last night. The same TSA prohibited item signage is there as it is in Dallas (Love Field and DFW), Kansas City MO, Las Vegas, Orlando, St Louis and West Palm Beach.

Also, 790.06(12) says "any passenger terminal". Depending on which definition you read the terminal can be where passengers board and deplane an aircraft.....or it can say the entire building from the curb to the plane. So, its another grey area. "passenger terminal" to me means the concourses and gate areas AFTER you pass through security into the "sterile area." Because everyone that goes to an airport is not a passenger. If it just said, "terminal", I would have to say then that you cannot carry a weapon anywhere, period.

Here it is again.

(12) No license issued pursuant to this section shall authorize any person to carry a concealed weapon or firearm into any place of nuisance as defined in s. 823.05; any police, sheriff, or highway patrol station; any detention facility, prison, or jail; any courthouse; any courtroom, except that nothing in this section would preclude a judge from carrying a concealed weapon or determining who will carry a concealed weapon in his or her courtroom; any polling place; any meeting of the governing body of a county, public school district, municipality, or special district; any meeting of the Legislature or a committee thereof; any school, college, or professional athletic event not related to firearms; any school administration building; any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose; any elementary or secondary school facility; any career center; any college or university facility unless the licensee is a registered student, employee, or faculty member of such college or university and the weapon is a stun gun or nonlethal electric weapon or device designed solely for defensive purposes and the weapon does not fire a dart or projectile; inside the passenger terminal and sterile area of any airport, provided that no person shall be prohibited from carrying any legal firearm into the terminal, which firearm is encased for shipment for purposes of checking such firearm as baggage to be lawfully transported on any aircraft; or any place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law. Any person who willfully violates any provision of this subsection commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

If from the doors to the metal detector were excluded you wouldn't have the operative phrase "inside the passenger terminal and sterile area of any airport." If it was just the area beyond the metal detectors the statute would be phrased as "inside the sterile area of any airport."

We'll see.

FDLE answered me: Looks like they are no longer allowed to give interpretations of law, they used to do it, I did it about 7 years ago and they answered my question.

Mr. XXXXXX:
The Division of Licensing has no jurisdiction to interpret statutes, issue opinions, or render legal advice about the legality and illegality of matters not strictly related to the issuance of concealed weapons licenses. The Division is given very narrow responsibility under section 790.06, Florida Statutes. We can issue licenses to qualified citizens; deny licenses to applicants who are not qualified; or revoke or suspend licenses in instances where licensees have committed disqualifying crimes. Outside of that, the Division has no authority to discuss the legality of concealed weapons issues and crimes pertaining to violations of the concealed weapons law. Please consult an attorney or State Attorney's Office.

Amanda F. Herring, Supervisor, Florida Department of Agriculture
Public Inquiry Section
(850)245-5665 Office (850)245-5655 Fax

I contacted an attorney to look into it for me. I asked him specifically to get an "interpretation from the state", because thats all that matters. His opinion or anyone elses opinions are meaningless. Once you get the interpretation of the law, it IS the law and its exactly what an attorney would go by if they had a real case to deal with. I've done this a couple times with the FAA to interpret an aviation law for us that was a little hard to make heads or tails of.

I'll post it as soon as I get it.

You sent your inquiry to the Florida Department of Agriculture which issues the FL CWFL, not FDLE. We already have an attorney's opinion on the matter previously posted in this thread. Seems pretty clear cut to me. However if you want to wear an orange jumpsuit and be Bubba's special friend in county lockup be my guest.

[magicman007]

I was wondering about the FDLE v. Fl. Dept. of Agriculture and Consumer Affairs, but I figured 'd let it go.

[magicman007]

45fella, any word from the lawyer yet? It's been two weeks. He should have found SOMETHING by now I would think.

[Pharaoh]

I am listing a boot that everyone with a Florida CCW should read and own.

ORLANDO CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY | AGGRAVATED BATTERY DEFENSE LAWYER JON H. GUTMACHER, Esq.


Pharaoh

[FreedomsAdvocate]

I guess just for cloture, here is a post from the esteemed FL attorney Gutmacher:

Airports and the CWP

I was surprised today when an instructor who has been using my book asked whether a TSA official was correct in saying that the entire passenger terminal was considered part of the "sterile area" - and thus a CWP holder could not carry a firearm in any part of the terminal. I was surprised because of the two mistakes in the question. First -- the "sterile area" is a federal definition, and does not refer to the entire terminal -- but (in simplified terms) is used to refer to the area from the Xray machines on. However, the second error involved a misreading of Florida Statute 790.06(12), which makes it crystal clear that carry pursuant to a CWP excludes the entire passenger terminal -- not just the sterile area.

In other words -- all portions of the "passenger terminal" are excluded from CWP carry. That should include the shops, the restaurants, etc.
However, since parking areas are normally separate and not within the passenger terminal building -- it will still be legal for CWP carry in that area.

So -- don't carry in an airport -- even with a CWP.

[KimberPB]

Originally Posted by FreedomsAdvocate

I guess just for cloture, here is a post from the esteemed FL attorney Gutmacher:

Thanks for the post FreedomsAdvocate but this still leaves my question about the Tampa airport a little hazy. At Tampa International all the passenger terminals are separate buildings you have to take a shuttle to. So you have to pass the security check point then shuttle over to the "passenger terminal." So wouldn't that mean I'm legal to carry at the main building (check in and baggage claim) as long as I don't go through the security check point?

But for now I don't have the money to try to argue that point in court so I'll leave it in that car. Or pick up curb side.

[netentity]

Originally Posted by KimberPB

Thanks for the post FreedomsAdvocate but this still leaves my question about the Tampa airport a little hazy. At Tampa International all the passenger terminals are separate buildings you have to take a shuttle to. So you have to pass the security check point then shuttle over to the "passenger terminal." So wouldn't that mean I'm legal to carry at the main building (check in and baggage claim) as long as I don't go through the security check point?

But for now I don't have the money to try to argue that point in court so I'll leave it in that car. Or pick up curb side.

Gutmacher's blog entry is pretty straight forward on the issue.

Airports and the CWP

I was surprised today when an instructor who has been using my book asked whether a TSA official was correct in saying that the entire passenger terminal was considered part of the "sterile area" - and thus a CWP holder could not carry a firearm in any part of the terminal. I was surprised because of the two mistakes in the question. First -- the "sterile area" is a federal definition, and does not refer to the entire terminal -- but (in simplified terms) is used to refer to the area from the Xray machines on. However, the second error involved a misreading of Florida Statute 790.06(12), which makes it crystal clear that carry pursuant to a CWP excludes the entire passenger terminal -- not just the sterile area.

In other words -- all portions of the "passenger terminal" are excluded from CWP carry. That should include the shops, the restaurants, etc.
However, since parking areas are normally separate and not within the passenger terminal building -- it will still be legal for CWP carry in that area.

So -- don't carry in an airport -- even with a CWP.

Only the parking lot is legal in Florida for non-LEOSA carry.

[toreskha]

It's too bad that terrorists don't heed state statutory laws. I can see Qaeda now ordering 1000 copies of Gutmacher's book for distribution to any jihad-minded kooks whose plans somehow call for a firearm.