Pointless No Gun Signs - Can You Carry In Florida Airports?

[45fella]

Originally Posted by netentity

Why does this portion exist?

provided that no person shall be prohibited from carrying any legal firearm into the terminal, which firearm is encased for shipment for purposes of checking such firearm as baggage to be lawfully transported on any aircraft

Reading the whole clause implies that cannot carry any firearms into the passenger accessible area of the airport unless they are prepared to be checked unloaded as baggage. The legislative intent is pretty obvious to me.

Does anyone have a copy of Gutmacher's book and get his opinion on it? The Statute and DOACS site is pretty straight forward to me. Sterile area and terminal is the entire airport building.

I'm a corporate jet pilot, I take alot of trips where I just reposition a jet somewhere in the country or I take a jet somewhere where the passengers are staying for 10-14 days and the pilots get to fly home. Then we fly back to take the plane/passengers back home after their stay. I bring my gun always.

I can tell you this, I have transported my gun many times on the airlines. All I do is bring my gun to the check-in counter, in the case, and tell them I need to check it in with my checked luggage. Most of the time its my only piece of checked luggage because I know I'm going right home. It has to have a lock on it and be unloaded in the case, but the full clip can be in the case with the gun, thats it. One time they asked me to unlock the combination lock to see the gun inside the case, then I just locked it back up and they took it.

I also walk around the non-secure areas of the airport with my gun all the time. The only place I don't go, of course, is through security to go into the terminal.

The terminal is the part of the airport AFTER you have gone through security to the GATES.

[magicman007]

Originally Posted by 45fella

The terminal is the part of the airport AFTER you have gone through security to the GATES.

According to TSA and the management at Daytona Beach and Jacksonville airports, the trminal starts at the curb. Anywhere from the CURB of the drive up area all the way to the boarding areas, etc. is considered the terminal. They minced no words in telling me this and strongly suggested I NOT bring a loaded firearm into the building at all.

[tattedupboy]

Maybe this map from opencarry.org will help:

OpenCarry.org - A Right Unexercised is a Right Lost!

[netentity]

Originally Posted by 45fella

I also walk around the non-secure areas of the airport with my gun all the time. The only place I don't go, of course, is through security to go into the terminal.

The terminal is the part of the airport AFTER you have gone through security to the GATES.

It appears a well known Florida firearms attorney agrees with me and disagrees with you. You just have not been made yet. Once you are made there's a possibility you may not get your pilot's license renewed for a weapon violation as TSA background checks are required for those along with hazmat endorsements for CDLs.

[45fella]

Originally Posted by magicman007

According to TSA and the management at Daytona Beach and Jacksonville airports, the trminal starts at the curb. Anywhere from the CURB of the drive up area all the way to the boarding areas, etc. is considered the terminal. They minced no words in telling me this and strongly suggested I NOT bring a loaded firearm into the building at all.

You have to remember, TSA people think they're something that they are not. They're just baggage checkers, they're not lawyers or law enforcement. They know very little.

Like I said, I have walked my gun case right up to the counter tons of times to check it as checked bags when I travel. I think if the terminal started at the curb someone over the past 10 years would have said something to me. The law states "sterile areas" and those that require a person to go through security. An airport is nothing more than a mall with restaurants and stores. When you go through security you are in the terminal.

Transporting firearms on the airlines is 100% legal. They don't require you to stand in traffic out front and wait for someone to come outside to get your gun case from you.

Personally what I do is: I call and get a name of a ticket agent so I have a contact person when I arrive at the counter. So I can at least say I informed them I'm coming.

[45fella]

Originally Posted by netentity

It appears a well known Florida firearms attorney agrees with me and disagrees with you. You just have not been made yet. Once you are made there's a possibility you may not get your pilot's license renewed for a weapon violation as TSA background checks are required for those along with hazmat endorsements for CDLs.

Lawyers are the last people I would ask for clarification. When I have a question about a firearm related issue, I email the FDLE and they get back to you in an emali with the proper interpretation. I will do that now with this issue and get back to you all in this thread. I'm almost certain I'm correct about carrying in the non-sterile areas though.

Also, pilots licenses are never renewed, they are granted for life. All that needs to be done to be able to fly is to keep yourself current on each aircraft category you fly. And TSA has zero authority to take a license from a pilot. The FAA can't even take your license away from you. The only way to lose a license is through a court proceeding with a federal judge after due process.

[KimberPB]

Originally Posted by 45fella

Lawyers are the last people I would ask for clarification. When I have a question about a firearm related issue, I email the FDLE and they get back to you in an emali with the proper interpretation. I will do that now with this issue and get back to you all in this thread. I'm almost certain I'm correct about carrying in the non-sterile areas though.

Also, pilots licenses are never renewed, they are granted for life. All that needs to be done to be able to fly is to keep yourself current on each aircraft category you fly. And TSA has zero authority to take a license from a pilot. The FAA can't even take your license away from you. The only way to lose a license is through a court proceeding with a federal judge after due process.

Thanks for your thoughts on this! Like you I had interpreted it as the passenger terminals and sterile areas were the part of the airport past the security check points. Gutmacher's reply to Luke still seemed kind of gray when he said "Most of the time." It'll be interesting to see what FDLE says. I think I'm going to email my instructor also and get his feed back.

I don't think anyone disagrees that it is legal to fly with your firearm. In the Florida state statute it actually has a clause saying it’s legal to carry an unloaded firearm in a locked case into the passenger terminal to check it onto a flight. I think the real question is if it is legal to carry a loaded firearm on your person while in, say, baggage claim.

[netentity]

Originally Posted by 45fella

Lawyers are the last people I would ask for clarification. When I have a question about a firearm related issue, I email the FDLE and they get back to you in an emali with the proper interpretation. I will do that now with this issue and get back to you all in this thread. I'm almost certain I'm correct about carrying in the non-sterile areas though.

Would you care to make a wager on it?

Also, pilots licenses are never renewed, they are granted for life. All that needs to be done to be able to fly is to keep yourself current on each aircraft category you fly. And TSA has zero authority to take a license from a pilot. The FAA can't even take your license away from you. The only way to lose a license is through a court proceeding with a federal judge after due process.

Are you sure about that? A lot of legislation has plowed through in to response to 9/11. See here and also google tsa pilot license revocation.

CDL holders with hazmat endorsements weren't required to get background checks now they do. I just let mine go because I never used it in the almost 20 years of having a CDL. I haven't driven a commercial vehicle i over 10 years, I just keep the license active since it's easier to just pay DMV when it's time to renew than it is to get it again should I need it. It wasn't worth the expense of maintaining the background check.

[45fella]

Originally Posted by netentity

Would you care to make a wager on it?
Are you sure about that? A lot of legislation has plowed through in to response to 9/11. See here and also google tsa pilot license revocation.

CDL holders with hazmat endorsements weren't required to get background checks now they do. I just let mine go because I never used it in the almost 20 years of having a CDL. I haven't driven a commercial vehicle i over 10 years, I just keep the license active since it's easier to just pay DMV when it's time to renew than it is to get it again should I need it. It wasn't worth the expense of maintaining the background check.

NO, I don't want to bet money on it, like I said, I'm almost certain I can carry in the non-sterile areas. By law, I'm not 100% sure how it would be interpreted by the FDLE, and the FDLE is all that matters. A TSA worker is meaningless and the cops that walk the airports. All that matters is what FDLE says.

BUT......TSA is just another entity that is used to do research. If TSA or anyone, even your 90 year-old neighbor finds out that you were involved in terrorist activity 10 years ago, they will report that to the FAA or TSA I guess, and then the FAA will take the proper steps through Federal Courts to have your license revoked or suspended. TSA is powerless to do anything. Basically the law says that even AFTER you have a pilots license, if something is found out about you that took place in the past BEFORE you got your pilots license, that would have been a DISQUALIFYING issue to get the pilots license, they can then revoke your license. In addition to that happening, you will probably get charged with false information for not informing the FAA about that prior issue.

Here's what the FAA/TSA says in the links you provided:

FAA can suspend or revoke a pilot's certificate if TSA
finds that the person poses a security threat. In addition to the
required checks, FAA checks names appearing on government "no fly" and
terrorist watch lists against its list of certified pilots as well as
checks the names of new student pilots and foreign pilots against TSA-
managed watch lists.[Footnote 11]

And again, TSA can't do a damn thing. They are just the grunt force out there trying to help the FAA find problems in the security world. The FAA has to bring a case against a pilot. Its just like US Customs, they are the bottom of the barrel in all of law enforcement, but after 9/11 the FAA put some authority into their hands to HELP find problems and breaches in security. So since 9/11, we now have to deal with these cheesy cowboys when we fly in from outside the country. What a great experience they make things.

[45fella]

Originally Posted by KimberPB

I don't think anyone disagrees that it is legal to fly with your firearm. In the Florida state statute it actually has a clause saying it’s legal to carry an unloaded firearm in a locked case into the passenger terminal to check it onto a flight. I think the real question is if it is legal to carry a loaded firearm on your person while in, say, baggage claim.

Oh, I know. We'll get the interpretation soon about carrying "on your person" while in the non-sterile areas of the airport. Not in the terminal or beyond the security checkpoints, just in the airport areas.