+ P or Standard loads for self defense?

[boris]

i so very much apreciate what y'all have to say on this. i had some of these loaded by a buddy of mine a while back. he said "emergency use only" keep it comin'!!!

[5.56_Spartan]

Originally Posted by ishi

The thing I look for with +P is the increased hydrostatic shock caused by the energy transfer. I don't think there's ever been any major study of the effects of this shock to the nervous system, but my guess is it has to be major. Added psychological effect is very desireable IMHO, because it saps a baddie's will to fight.

I won't disagree..... the more pain I can put into the BG's the better. The question ends up being; in many shots more than 13" = outside the torso. So is the energy wasted?

At the same time, many of us on these forums practice regularly, but I think most of us would agree that the average CPL (CCW, CCP) holder doesn't practice near enough to be familiar with their weapon with +P ammo.

[mot mayhem]

Originally Posted by DrLewall

Good question! Heavy coats in winter could cause some concern and with that, I can see the use of a 357mag..hmmmm

I like the .357, but mine is a long barrelled hunting pistola.

Do those .357 sigs have problems loading being a bottleneck round, into a short action semi, as opposed to a longer, stronger setup in rifles?

[Sgt. SIG]

For SD I really like CorBon .45 Auto +P 185gr DPX. :D

[Hoplites1234]

I've a box of +p 9mm that I've been waiting to get to practice with, guess tomorrows the day and I'll try out the Glock too boot.

[ishi]

Originally Posted by 5.56_Spartan

I won't disagree..... the more pain I can put into the BG's the better. The question ends up being; in many shots more than 13" = outside the torso. So is the energy wasted?

I've thought about this a bit from a physics perspective...

I think of the hydrostatic shock as a "wave" in human flesh created by a projectile. For the attacker to feel that wave, it needs to be as tall (amplitude) as possible.

Next, think about making a wave with your hand in a bathtub. The strongest wave is created by pushing the water constantly. If your hand slows down too much as it moves through the water, the wave won't be made, because waves are created by matter that's displaced at a constant speed... The force creating a wave should go at as constant a speed as possible.

Thinking about a slow bullet passing through flesh, especially a hollow point, a dramatic slowdown occurs. If the bullet stops before it exits the body, then it was slowing down for a long time in its path through the body. Its speed was not anywhere near constant. I wouldn't expect much of a wave to be created by such a projectile.

For a quite fast bullet, let's say the .357 Magnum, the bullet tears through the body hardly slowing down at all. I've heard the phrase "struck by lightning" attributed to the effect of this bullet. Since the bullet was very fast, and hardly slowed down, it was traveling at a more constant velocity during its traversal of the body. So, it makes sense that a very strong shock wave was created. Hopefully, as the wave traveled through the body, it affected many parts of the nervous system and overloaded the brain with input.

This particular effect may be lost on assailants who are on drugs that disrupt their nervous system. But of course, the bullet will still do a number on whatever it went through.

Anyway, if this hypothesis is true, then overpenetration goes hand in hand with an effective "hydrostatic shock" effect. Be sure of your target and what is behind your target... :o

Physics majors feel free to debunk my layman's understanding of wave dynamics.

[Tarzan1888]

Originally Posted by boris

what do you guys think? better than rocks? yes. my police academy instructor said he prefered wadcutters loaded to + P pressures, especially during the winter because hollow points could get tangled up in heavy coats. thoughts/experiences?

If you use ENOUGH gun, you don't need +P

Tarzan