New Guy w/ ?

[RugerP345]

Quote from Afghanistan: ".45 brings 'em back alive. Baretta is mucho regretta."

No military member or retiree in my DAV or American Legion Lodge I have asked would take a 9mm over a .45. Many people I talked to owe their lives to the .45. I've also heard that .45s are like gold over in Iraq, as soldiers there are trying to get their hands on one because the 92F doesn't do the job.

The only way a 9mm can come close to the .45 in stopping power is if you're using Black Talon or Gold Dot hollow-point ammo. Unfortunately, hollow point ammo is unauthorized in the military unless you're special ops.








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[Ga9mm]

A little off subject, but why are hollow point rounds not authorized for military use?

[HootmonSccy]

I'm sure the 9mm is better than a .25, but in a real combat situation, I might not get but one shot.

So far as "impact", a 9mm Remington 147-gr. Golden Saber averages about 1030 ft/sec. The 45 ACP 230-gr. Golden Saber averages about 870 ft/sec. Ask yourself, would you rather get t-boned by a slow moving tractor trailer or a fast moving Pinto?

I don't live in Afghanistan - I don't think I'm going to get into "a real combat situation", it's possible, but highly unlikely.. I'm not in the military (any more).. I didn't buy a gun for combat, I bought one for personal protection.
For me, a 9mm is a good compromise (Yes I said compromise).. It's big enough to get the job done, and doesn't weigh me down after a long day of being out..

The measurement of effect on a body is mainly the energy the bullet is carrying, it's not so much speed or size that does damage.. (within reason)

In your examples above the energy comparison is:
9mm = 346 ft lbs
45 = 386 ft lbs

The difference is 40 ft lbs or you can say the 9mm hits with 90% of the energy of the 45.. Hardly a Truck vs. a pinto..
More like getting hit by a F-150 or a Dodge Dakota, and that's probably still not a close enough analogy..

We had an incident here in Florida recently.. a man shot a policeman with one bullet and the policeman died. The police shot the suspect 6 times and he lived.
Sometimes life is just not fair..

[HootmonSccy]

A little off subject, but why are hollow point rounds not authorized for military use?

It's a Geneva convention thing..

[RugerP345]

A little off subject, but why are hollow point rounds not authorized for military use?

The brains in Geneva feel that hollow points are too ugly. Basically, if you shoot an enemy with FMJ, he is taken off the battlefield and (hopefully) the hole is patched up at the MASH. Hollow points, on the other hand, chew 'em up too much and the damage is usually not repairable, and thus is "inhumane" (according to them).

Now if you throw a box or two into your duffel bag on deployment and nobody knows...

[RugerP345]

I don't live in Afghanistan - I don't think I'm going to get into "a real combat situation", it's possible, but highly unlikely.. I'm not in the military (any more).. I didn't buy a gun for combat, I bought one for personal protection.
For me, a 9mm is a good compromise (Yes I said compromise).. It's big enough to get the job done, and doesn't weigh me down after a long day of being out..

The measurement of effect on a body is mainly the energy the bullet is carrying, it's not so much speed or size that does damage.. (within reason)

In your examples above the energy comparison is:
9mm = 346 ft lbs
45 = 386 ft lbs

The difference is 40 ft lbs or you can say the 9mm hits with 90% of the energy of the 45.. Hardly a Truck vs. a pinto..
More like getting hit by a F-150 or a Dodge Dakota, and that's probably still not a close enough analogy..

We had an incident here in Florida recently.. a man shot a policeman with one bullet and the policeman died. The police shot the suspect 6 times and he lived.
Sometimes life is just not fair..

All good points. I guess it boils down to what YOU are comfortable with and have confidence in. If you trust your weapon, no matter the caliber, you are going to shoot it more accurately. As they say, a .22 on the spot is better than a .45 near miss.




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[Ga9mm]

That makes sense. I would hate to be at war and have to shoot my enemy inhumanely.

[6shootercarry]

A little off subject, but why are hollow point rounds not authorized for military use?

The Geneva Conventions of 1949

It's outlined in the Geneva conventions and protocols.

[6shootercarry]

It has to do with bullet design, and placement. Get em in the right place, and get the ones that cause massive tissue damage and they will kill. Put a few in the liver of anyone and they will die slowly. May not stop them quickly though...
I like the .45 for the mass and a little less velocity. I also have a 357 Mag and if the BG is in close to the muzzle the possibility of a punch through with a smaller round at 1400-1500 fps vs a larger round at 890-1050 fps will be greater. I'd rather have the round stop in the target then to pass through and possibly hit someone or something that I'll be responsible for.
There is no magic round that will guarantee a kill or a stop. It also has to do with the condition of the BG. Drugs, alcohol, and adrenaline will reduce the perceived level of pain. If they don't feel the pain then they will not stop. In that case a head shot or one that severs the spinal cord would be the stopper...

Lots of reading material related to the subject...