Why I carry or Look! Up in the sky...

[bbarton713]

Every once in a while this thought goes through my mind and I find myself wondering if I've written about it or not. After a while all the forums and comments and threads start to resemble a big ball of tangled yarn.

Anyway, what I see on these concealed carry forums is the same thing I observed over the years on martial arts forums. The only difference is that carrying a firearm is part of our Constitution while I guess the right to keep and bear arms could apply to karate as well, in a literal sense.

The idea is that because you are a black belt or because you carry a weapon you are now at a different level and should act accordingly. The martial arts ends up with people that think that because they are a black belt in karate that makes them an expert in everything, and if you disagree you can fight it out with them.

The idea of operating at a different level, in my opinion, plays right into the hands of those that make us go through background checks, jump through hoops, and then spend inordinate amounts of time and money to finally get the (heavenly choir breaks out into song) PERMIT!

Why should we be held to a different standard for exercising our right? I don't imagine the founding fathers thinking that they had created a class of super-citizens based on the 2A being part of our constitution.

Somehow the requirement went from being a citizen to being a super-qualified and squeaky-clean citizen that says yes sir, no sir, three bag fulls when approached by the pinnacle of weapon-hood, the LEO.

I carry because it is my right. I have a permit because I was considered a 'safe and law-abiding' citizen, but let's not get carried away and start giving ourselves any more hoops than what the state or federal government has already created for us.

[kelcarry]

Hey bb: Understand where you are coming from but tend to disagree a bit. If your behavior requires an LEO to be asking you about your your CC, and he is not some sort of LEO who should not be an LEO, I think you are out of bounds. Granted it is not quite the same thing,but you do have freedom of speech but cannot call fire in a theatre. You do have your rights under 2A but you also have responsibilities; 2A did not mean walking around CC in a modern environment doing whatever came naturally because it is writen that we can have a well-regulated militia. Note the word" regulated"--that can easily mean having a permit and assuming additional responsibilities then the ordinary joe standing next to you. Just sayin. Peace brother.

[bbarton713]

Hey kc: I understand where you're coming from too. I think what I'm looking for is the balanced approach between responsibility and right. I think the extreme in either direction (forcing an OC encounter on one hand, being more militant than the government about who gets to CC on the other) is what bothers me.

As always, a pleasure exchanging ideas with you.

[CapGun]

I think all rights probably come with responsibilities. One would be that "a right not exercised is a right lost!"

[kelcarry]

Hey cap and bb: Like your replies. Some of these threads are getting rather contentious and I always appreciate like-minded replies. I'm not perfect by a long shot and have gotten in trouble on forums by letting off too much steam on "current issues" so to read replies that allow me to take a breath of peaceful equanimity is welcome.

[Austin]

Having a permit to CC, to me, is the same thing as having to go through a background check to purchase a firearm.

[charliej47]

I see it as no different thatn having to get a license to drive or fly a plane or "slice and dice " as a doctor.

[kelcarry]

Hey Austin and charliej47: I totally disagree with your comparisons. A background check is for things you did before someone allowed you to CC with a potentially lethal firearm--big difference when you were just a regular joe and are now allowed to be armed with potential killing power--your responsibilites as you are CC have gone up measureably. Flying a plane and driving a car? Yes they are licenses but come on guy--if you cannot see a difference between a driver's license and a CCWP, I cannot even begin to explain why I disagree with you. I truly believe that you do indeed know the difference but I think you are denigrating the responsibility that the CCWP confers when you are CC.

[2beararms]

... The martial arts ends up with people that think that because they are a black belt in karate that makes them an expert in everything, and if you disagree you can fight it out with them...

So if you don't agree with me we can shoot it out? I hope CCW's don't really go to that extreme (I know some do).

I agree with your initial premise except that I think it is a personality type that is attracted both to getting a CCW and then to participating in forums that has a natural level of "superiority complex" thinking they are always right. Of course everyone knows they cannot always be right because I AM!

Now seriously, if you feel a need to be "legal" then you wind up studying the laws and analyzing actions and there are going to be generated differences in opinion.

For example, I do feel there is a similarity between a CCW permit and a drivers or pilots license. All allow you to control a deadly weapon and the one with the least amount of killing power is the gun, so to say that a CCW need to be more "responsible" than a driver or pilot, to me is inaccurate.

I feel CCW requires great responsibility, but so does anything that can cause mayhem and death and if we treat those things as "normal", then we can also treat CCW as "normal".

I see so many posts by CCW people who take actions that either draw attention to themselves or else become violations in their own right, in order to comply with the "law". An example is Florida says you may not carry in the "portion of an establishment primarily designated for the dispensing of alcohol." There was a story of a CCW who trekked through the posted "EMPLOYEES ONLY" area of the restaurant to avoid walking through the bar area while carrying to get to the restroom. He also did the same on the return trip after being told.

Now here, this person actually committed the crime of TRESPASS (entering a restricted area of private property after being warned not to) because of a paranoia of how the Florida law COULD be interpreted, even though there are no cases of prosecution for walking through a bar to get to the restroom while carrying, and there is a law requiring access to said restroom that trumps all other restrictions.

So paranoia about CCW caused this person to not act "naturally" resulting in his acting irrationally. Luckily it was no harm no foul and LEO was not dispatched to dispose of him ... but it could have gone that way.

Thinking CCW responsibility is greater than these other items is actually an example of this "better than the rest" mentality, like we have a much harder standard of laws and morals to adhere to. But that is not true. CCW law is 99% common sense. MEN the answer is the same one your daddy taught you when you were six ... KEEP IT IN YOUR PANTS AND YOU WILL STAY OUT OF TROUBLE! Take it for what it is worth, that adage works for guns my Friend.

You know right from wrong and it is not that you now know the law that makes you seem superior, it is that you cared to learn about it in the first place and that you accept the restrictions at hand until you can change them under the law. It is all just a game we are all playing, so enjoy it, because it is NORMAL!

And if you think I'm wrong we can shoot it out.

[kelcarry]

Hey 2beararms: C'mon guy. It is easy to write comments about favorably comparing a CCWP to a driver's license, but methinks you are being argumentative just because. Why is it that you must lock you firearm up but do not have to lock your car? Why is it that you can drive your car literally anywhere, but you cannot take your firearm anywhere? You know this list goes on and on when trying to compare the use or misuse of both of these items. Please do not tell me that is the crazy anti 2As. I truly believe, as I said before, that you are arguing for argument's sake and that you really do not expect me to believe that the two are interchangeable. Yes, they both confer responsibilites and yes, they both can kill--I'll give you that---but I guess we will agree to disagree even though I truly believe you are saying this with a tinge of sarcasm. In any event, make sure you lock your car and do not leave it on a public street--wouldn't want you arrested for "brandishing". Please take my comments lightly--I enjoy the discourse and mean no disrespect. Peace brother.