.357 Carbine-Question?

[Ringo]

I read an article today that said not to shoot HP (.357) ammo in a rifle for self defense because due to the higher velocity, the HP would fragment and not give adequate penetration. JSP was the recommended round.
Is this correct or a crock?

[NMHunter]

As with a lot of generalizations this one has a smidgen of truth and loads of opinion.

The best answer I can come up with is to try the different HPs and SPs available to you. At carbine velocities they may come apart or may open just fine. The only way to find out is to research the different bullets to find out which are recommended for carbine then test them yourself. My opinion is that the heavier weight for 357, e.g., 158 grains and higher will tend to hold together better than the lighter ones. The bullets designed for deer hunting would be the ones I'd try first.

[-06]

Great advice NM. Would not worry about them fragmenting before impact. My son used an 8" barrelled one to hunt with. I use a four inch for back up.

[KimberPB]

As with a lot of generalizations this one has a smidgen of truth and loads of opinion.

The best answer I can come up with is to try the different HPs and SPs available to you. At carbine velocities they may come apart or may open just fine. The only way to find out is to research the different bullets to find out which are recommended for carbine then test them yourself. My opinion is that the heavier weight for 357, e.g., 158 grains and higher will tend to hold together better than the lighter ones. The bullets designed for deer hunting would be the ones I'd try first.

+1 NMHunter. I also think you should be able to find one that works. I've shot 75 grain hollow points out of my .223 and 168gr hollow points out of my .308. They were both moving faster then a .357 mag and they held together well.

[jtg452]

I suggest you get some of the JHP loads you are interested in using and shoot them over a chronograph through the gun you intend on using. Once you have some actual velocities (opposed to the test barrel stuff you commonly find on the back of the box), contact the ammunition company that made it and ask them if the bullet will fail at that velocity or not. They made it, I have to believe that they would know better than anyone else.

If you were looking at the Speer 125gr Gold Dot, Speer sells just the bullet, too. If you contact them with the velocity information, they will give you a straight answer. Speer's been developing reloading data for decades, has one of the best ballistic labs in the business and has an excellent reputation for working with reloaders. They can't afford NOT to give you the truth.

That being said, here's my nickel's worth of free opinion on the matter.

I seriously doubt (as in would be willing to say, "Nope, ain't gonna happen," doubt) that you are going to see enough velocity increase over the list velocities to cause the bullet to fail. Unless you are shooting a 30 inch barrel, I doubt if you are gonna get much more than 2000fps. Maybe 2100's with lighter bullet weights from some of the longer barrels but that's it.

I base this on some experiments I did with the 300gr JSP CorBon Hunting ammo in .45 Colt. From my Ruger wheel gun, it was doing almost exactly the 1000fps it claimed on the side of the box (not surprising since CorBon was using a Blackhawk of the same length for their velocity tests). From my '94 Trapper, I was getting 1450fps with a 35fps standard deviation according to my PACT chronograph with the screens set a measured 6 feet from the muzzle. That's a 9 inch increase in barrel length (plus the lack of a cylinder gap) and only a 400-450fps increase in velocity. And it's not like CorBon has EVER been accused of being cheap on powder nor have they ever shown a tendency to exaggerate their list velocities.

[Ringo]

Is it fair to say that a .38 spl. fired from a 20 in. barrel, within 75-100 yrds., on impact, is the same as a .357 round fired from a 4 in. barrel on impact within 20-50 ft.? After all, the .38 spl. would be traveling at or near 1200-1300 fps.,correct?

[jtg452]

There's no way to answer that question honestly. Too many variables. Can you get a .38 Special that runs between 12-1300fps from a 20 inch carbine? Yeah, that's not too hard. But the apples and oranges comparison with a .357 load from a 4 inch pistol? That's not something I can just pull out of thin air.

If you are looking for a load that will do what you are asking for, I suggest you get a good chronograph and a VERY GOOD ballistics computing program and start doing some research.

[Ringo]

There's no way to answer that question honestly. Too many variables. Can you get a .38 Special that runs between 12-1300fps from a 20 inch carbine? Yeah, that's not too hard. But the apples and oranges comparison with a .357 load from a 4 inch pistol? That's not something I can just pull out of thin air.

If you are looking for a load that will do what you are asking for, I suggest you get a good chronograph and a VERY GOOD ballistics computing program and start doing some research.

I'm not really looking for any special load, I simply like the idea of being able to ruin a BG's day with a .38 spl. at 75-100 yrds.

[wolfhunter]

I'm not really looking for any special load, I simply like the idea of being able to ruin a BG's day with a .38 spl. at 75-100 yrds.

In what scenario will a BG at 75 yards put you in fear for your life?

Although it is kinda fun to put pistol rounds in a target at those distances, what is the likelihood of needing to do it?

I consider the challenge of putting 9mm rounds from my 995 carbine in a target at 100+ yards as part of my marksmanship training for actual rifle work. Besides, I enjoy the look on the face of the guy with the lead sled bench rest, chronograph, log book, spotting scope, etc. when I fire 10 rounds in under a minute, and they're all in the black. Especially when he notes that I'm shooting 9mm. Priceless

[Ringo]

In what scenario will a BG at 75 yards put you in fear for your life?
Although it is kinda fun to put pistol rounds in a target at those distances, what is the likelihood of needing to do it?

There are those who say that a handgun is only good to fight your way home to your rifle. A handgun is for self defense, up close and personal. Should any of the numerous possibilities that civil unrest, or worse, should come to pass, a rifle round capable of taking out any threat at 75-100 yrds. is my assurance that I won't be in fear of my life. A rifle is your best friend when distance comes into play.