You Knew The Conditions Of Employment When You Took The Job

[Treo]

We’ve all seen the threads. “I took this job delivering pizza and I knew when they hired me I couldn’t carry but I’m going to anyway” I’ve always held that this is an unethical position but, I’m curious as to the opinions (and the rationale behind them) of other members.

So, you’re sitting in orientation for your new job. You glance through the employee handbook and it’s clearly stated that employees are not allowed to carry a firearm on company time under any circumstance. (The policy specifically does not prohibit you from keeping a firearm in your POV which you will never use for company business).

Is it ethical for you to take the job knowing you have every intention of carrying on the clock?

If you take the job is it ethical for you to carry?

[Miguel Denyer]

We’ve all seen the threads. “I took this job delivering pizza and I knew when they hired me I couldn’t carry but I’m going to anyway” I’ve always held that this is an unethical position but, I’m curious as to the opinions (and the rationale behind them) of other members.

So, you’re sitting in orientation for your new job. You glance through the employee handbook and it’s clearly stated that employees are not allowed to carry a firearm on company time under any circumstance. (The policy specifically does not prohibit you from keeping a firearm in your POV which you will never use for company business).

Is it ethical for you to take the job knowing you have every intention of carrying on the clock?

If you take the job is it ethical for you to carry?

Personally speaking, if the job requires you to travel the streets as a delivery person then no employer should be allowed the right to deny you the ability to carry if you are doing so within the letter of the law. Granted, if you work in a building owned by the company in question then they have the right to deny you entry into the building ONLY if they have a sign that clearly states that they prohibit the concealed carriage of a firearm - the law actually backs them up on this matter because if such a sign is posted and you carry anyway, you are now guilty of armed trespass. However, back to the point at hand ... the company in question, should they ban you from carrying whilst on a delivery route has no legal right to deny you your rights... it is unconstitutional to prevent a lawful citizen from carrying concealed if a valid concealed carry permit is held by the armed party.

Here is a good question to ask the employer... "Do you cover my life with enough life insurance to keep my family comfortable should I be killed on my way to or from work and while driving along any authorized route that the company expects me to take during the normal course of my shift given the fact that you are denying my right to defend myself against robbery or violent attack?"

You can pretty much bet hat they don't carry that kind of insurance on their employees and therefore have no right to place you in danger (pizza delivery persons are murdered all the time by bogus customers trying to rob them)... Just a few thoughts is all... I am tired right now so this may not read the way it is intended...

[Sig1911]

Ethical? No, if by ethical you mean being a person of your word. Yes, if by ethical you mean being true to a set of values that esteems personal integrity iilower than whatever those values are. I think the better plan would be to go and explain your position and ask for permission or some kind of special dispensation. If you don't and you are caught, you will likely lose your job, and jobs are hard to come by these days. Even worse - if you use the gun on the job and are prosecuted or sued as a result, then it's likely your failure to adhere to the company policy will be used against you in court.

[Terminal Lance]

As far as taking the job I don't feel that is unethical. Choosing to deliberately disobey their policy would be unethical in a literal sense. They might have the policy as a liability so of someone comes in and goes postal one day they aren't liable. However, I'm sure you can already guess what my response to that is going to be. To hell with their policy. I think it's unethical for them to deny you your right to personal protection. So long as you have a permit and keep it well concealed so as not to make some of the other employee's uncomfortable, I don't see why you shouldn't be allowed that right. If they catch you they will fore you. If you ask me though my personal safety is more important. I can always get another job, but there are no re-spawns in life.

[ramrunnr]

Speaking about purely hypothetical situations,

We’ve all seen the threads. “I took this job delivering pizza and I knew when they hired me I couldn’t carry but I’m going to anyway” I’ve always held that this is an unethical position but, I’m curious as to the opinions (and the rationale behind them) of other members.

Some people may have started carrying after they got the job. I know that some have got a job after, but you have to consider both ways.

So, you’re sitting in orientation for your new job. You glance through the employee handbook and it’s clearly stated that employees are not allowed to carry a firearm on company time under any circumstance. (The policy specifically does not prohibit you from keeping a firearm in your POV which you will never use for company business).

If a person does carry a firearm in this situation, then that person should expect the consequences of their actions should they be found out.

Is it ethical for you to take the job knowing you have every intention of carrying on the clock?

If you take the job is it ethical for you to carry?

The problems with ethics is that it is an opinion. What I consider ethical, you may consider unethical, and vice-versa.


You have to make the choices that you are comfortable with and live with them and their consequences. It is the same with me and everyone else on this planet. If you carry that is up to you and your personal ethics just be prepared to "pay the Piper", if it comes to that.

For me, I carry where it is legal for me to do so. A no-gun policy in the workplace is just like a "Gun-Buster" sign on the door for the employees, so I wouldn't carry there.

I don't want to get charged with anything that could cause me to lost my carry permit. On the other hand, I would also make it very clear that if the company's policy is to disarm me, that makes them responsible for my safety, and if I am injured do to there negligence then I am going to sue them for damages. If I'm armed and can't protect myself, then its my own fault.

[Firefighterchen]

My life is my responsibility. Period.

[jg1967]

It is not. But then again neither are many things companies do and they seem to get away with it. Sorry, it's too early and I feel too cynical right now...

[lima]

Actually I think what is unethical is companies instituting policies like that to cover their ends rather than allowing you to cover your's. They clearly view employees as expendable assets, so it would make sense for the employee to in turn view the job as expendable. As someone mentioned before, it's not like they provide excellent health and life insurance anyway. It is better to be fired because of a defensive shooting than killed as a helpless victim by thugs who only want the $20 on you and the pizza you're delivering.

On the other hand, I am in the military and am not allowed to carry personal weapons on the base. I do abide by this though because the situation is very different. The benefits are great, in the event of death my wife would be well taken care of, and the consequences of getting caught with a weapon are grave.

[kelcarry]

Ethical or not Sig said the most important part of the equation--you will be sued out of existence by the person or family of the person you shot AND your now - previous employer for violating their policy on gun carry. It seems like our society has totally become a "me" society irregardless of rules, agreements etal. You take a job and clearly know you cannot CC and you do so anyway? You are wrong, wrong, wrong and deserve to be prosecuted if not legally, certainly civilly. You can ask your questions like "will you give me life insurance if I cannot CC?" but that is about it.

[cartisdm]

I'm sure we're all aware of the current economical situation going on right now. Not everyone has the option to be picky about the job they take. And let's be honest, how many companies actually allow concealed carry? Is it ethical to disobey company regulations? No, I don't think so. Would I do it anyway? It depends entirely on the job.

If I was a pizza delivery man? Sure, I'd still carry. At my current job where I work in an office and working toward a lifelong career in system development? Hell no. I would stand a greater risk at hurting my family by losing my job than needing my firearm. Thankfully, NC will begin allowing me to keep my gun in my car during work on Dec. 1st