When is it brandishing and when is it defense?

[Dragonbreath]

Kelcarry, I like your thinking, but with a couple of considerations. I'm a fan of steel telescoping batons (ASP, etc.), and of pepper spray or bear spray. The steel baton, however, in Florida, has to be carried as a concealed weapon, so there are the problems of carrying it concealed but easily accessible. That makes it slower to deploy, and kills its visible deterrent effect. Plus, if I have to go into a "no carry" zone (federal buildings, bars, police stations, etc.), I either leave batons and sprays behind or I'm a law-breaker and subject to arrest. That's why I've settled on carrying a walking cane or escrima-type single stick (painted and carried as a "swagger stick") - I don't have to leave them behind and don't have to concealed-carry them, and a would-be attacker can see that I'm not completely unarmed, so he's likelier to look for an easier target I just wish that Florida, and the U.S. as a whole, would get the common sense to know that open carry is actually better for society than concealed carry.

[broheam77]

The first and most important thing as a ccw holder is situational awareness and self control. At 320 pounds and six foot five. Unless there is a weapon involved you better beloved my sig doesn't. Clear its holster. This is even more important in certain states. Such as my state of Massachusetts. So unless the target in question has a firearm, I would make every attempt to defuse or disarms. Furthermore my wife is instructed to call911 and inform law enforcement of the situation and my actions immediately. So LEOs now what you are doing along there arrival.

[kelcarry]

Absolutely right bro. SA and everything to avoid the confrontation is definitely on top of the list. As you avoid a confrontation, particularly if there are other people around, you should be yelling and screaming as you retreat or do whatever--this gets you witnesses. When all that is left is stand your ground and you, as a reasonable person, presume imminent threat of death or great bodily injury, you present your firearm and you discharge. There is no room for presenting a firearm under any other circumstances--it is brandishing and it is a crime (at least in most states).

[Peregrine Falcon]

A lot of responses here and on other posts would have you believe that an unintentional exposure (your shirt rides up when you bend over at the store to get the pizza sauce off the bottom shelf) is to be considered brandishing.

Awesome thread with lots of good points, I haven't finished reading it but I do want to comment on what was said above. I have heard of that type of situation before. I agree with Walt that this is not brandishing but in some areas it CAN still get you in trouble. Those areas are states (used to be my state) where concealed carry is legal but open carry is not. When you accidentally exposed your gun you were "open carrying" if even for a brief moment. That was never considered brandishing by the legal definition but could get you a ticket if someone reported that they saw your gun. This was never considered a serious offense from what I've heard but then again every state is different.

Thankfully my state has now legalized open carry so accidental exposure is now not an issue at all.

[Shawn Jarman]

I like Phillip Gain explanation, very well put,On a defferent note on brandishing, If you carry in a hip holster and you streight to reach of something and you EDC is reveiled can be a form a brendishing a firearm, Here in NV, we are alloud to open carry even with out a permit, so no big problem here on this kind of brandishing

[Peregrine Falcon]

Hey BC1 and jg: One important thing to remember about NY is that there are two NYs.

I can vouch for this too, I went to college with someone who grew up on NY (not NYC) and he was into politics. He said that there are proposal's introduced into the NY State Legislature on a regular basis that would split NY into two states. South NY would be NYC and North NY would be the rest of the state. Of course those proposal's were always defeated as NYC has an awful lot of representation in the NY State Legislature.

In hindsight I will say that I don't know if that is true or not but it sure is funny...

[Axeanda45]

I came across a good article which has the following paragraph in it... I think it explains quite well what is wrong with the select few on here who think that they have to shoot if they "clear leather"....



A big part of recognizing the threat is understanding what to look for. Unfortunately while many self defense schools pay lip service to awareness many really do not offer any structure for dealing with it other than advice to "pay attention" and be able to "shoot tight groups". Unfortunately those are two different sides of the Grand Canyon with a huge chasm in between.You basically set people up to maybe pick up on something that looks out of place and then their next link in the chain is to use their gun. If that is all you have in the tool box then you will likely shoot someone who did not need to be shot . The other end of the scale is "paralysis by analysis" where you wait far to long to act. That comes from not being familiar enough with what you are witnessing to make decisions in a timely manner. We do not have to wait until we can determine the caliber of his pistol by carefully measuring the diameter of the muzzle to act.


Here is the link to the entire article on warrior talk... WARRIOR TALK NEWS - Lessons from the Force-on-Force Gunfighting Course in Columbia, SC

[rifleshooter474]

If one draws their firearm they had best be ready to start shooting, if you think it will defer a threat you could be very wrong.
And the person you think is a threat might just make a report to the Police,that you pointed your gun at him or her, this will cause you great problems.
A real threat to ones life should be known, and then you must shoot to kill, no just trying to make someone change their mind with the sight of your firearm.

[Billy Bob 753]

BEST thing to do immediately. Consult a very knowledgeable attorney that is on "OUR" side (in favor of personal defense with any weapon). Be ready to pay for their service and if you like what you hear by all means consider the seriousness of needing to hire them in your defense needs. Not any of these posts are based upon court/legal representation. Like they say... Anyone and everyone can have their own opinion. But, it will be destroyed in court if there isn't prior summary or judgement.