Keeping A Receipt To Cover Your @ss?

[B2Tall]

There, fixed it for you. If my name becomes any part of a criminal investigation you bet your ass I'm going to get a lawyer.

Again, if you are that worried that you are about to sell your fuddgun to one of the 3 out 100 criminals who purchase their firearms in a legal ( by definition illegal) private sale why not do the transfer through an FFL?

The most disturbing thing about your comments in this thread is your complete disregard for your responsibilities as a gun owner and seller. You've repeatedly said that as long as you don't know that the buyer is underage, then it's OK to sell it to them.....as if it's some sort of loophole that lets you out of your obligation (you even italicized the word "know" in order to emphasize it). This is exactly the type of irresponsible attitude that the anti-gun crew pounces on.

And I'll save the lawyer's fees by handing the police my receipt and telling them that I don't know anything beyond what's on that piece of paper (which, conveniently, is the absolute truth).

[Treo]

You've repeatedly said that as long as you don't know that the buyer is underage, then it's OK to sell it to them.

Actually I never said that anywhere I said that Colorado law states that I can't sell to someone I know (ooops I did it again) can't legally buy the gun. (that's not the exact wording of the law but it's the same meaning.

Now, I haven't sold a gun in forever (and I kinda knew the last guy I sold to) so this is academic but I have no responibilty to do some kind of back ground check on the buyer. Yes, if I meet you and you look like your 6 years old I'm going to want to see proof of your age, if you pull up to the sale in a car w/ Texas tags on it I'm going to want to see Colorado ID because a reasonable person might assume that tags mean you don't live here. That said, I'm still not obligated to climb up your butt w/ a microscope.

The odds are still 97 to 3 in my favor and I'm not going to get freaked out over it.


I have asked this numerous times w/ no response. I really would like to know the answer.

If you are that concerned that the gun you're selling may be going to a criminal why not got to an FFL and have him do the transfer? I mean that would certainly show due dilliegence

[B2Tall]

The odds are still 97 to 3 in my favor and I'm not going to get freaked out over it.

Again - your flippant and cavalier attitude is fodder for the "antis".

The chance of you needing to defend yourself with your gun on any given day is far less than 3% yet you still carry, right?? It's a much smaller % but you seem sufficiently concerned.

Would you point a gun at someone while casually handling it?? After all, the chance of it unintentionally discharging is extremely slim....a lot less than 3%.....but I bet you're still concerned enough that you would never sweep somebody with a gun while handling it.

But the 3% you keep touting seems small enough for you to pretty much disregard any possible consequences. Why is that?? Is it because somebody else will be the victim and probably not you?? Nice. Hopefully your "I'm a rebel and nobody can tell me what to do" attitude doesn't end up costing somebody...even you.

I have asked this numerous times w/ no response. I really would like to know the answer.

If you are that concerned that the gun you're selling may be going to a criminal why not got to an FFL and have him do the transfer? I mean that would certainly show due dilliegence

Because I can check an ID myself. Because I don't need an FFL to make sure that the person I'm dealing with is old enough or who they say they are. Because I can record all the necessary information to cover my own tail as well as help with any criminal investigation that might be associated with that particular firearm no matter how remote that possibility is. Because I believe somebody trying to illegally purchase a gun from me isn't very likely to want to show some sort of ID - I'm sure they'd prefer a "no questions asked" transaction (kinda like what you'd give them). I don't need an FFL to take a few basic steps when conducting a private gun sale.

[Treo]

But the 3% you keep touting seems small enough for you to pretty much disregard any possible consequences. Why is that?? Is it because somebody else will be the victim and probably not you?? Nice. Hopefully your "I'm a rebel and nobody can tell me what to do" attitude doesn't end up costing somebody...even you.




Because I can check an ID myself. Because I don't need an FFL to make sure that the person I'm dealing with is old enough or who they say they are. Because I can record all the necessary information to cover my own tail as well as help with any criminal investigation that might be associated with that particular firearm no matter how remote that possibility is. Because I believe somebody trying to illegally purchase a gun from me isn't very likely to want to show some sort of ID - I'm sure they'd prefer a "no questions asked" transaction (kinda like what you'd give them). I don't need an FFL to take a few basic steps when conducting a private gun sale.

Your debating tactics are dishonest. You keep coming back to how I’m failing in my responsibility as a gun owner because I’m not worried about the 3% number. So, let’s say I do every thing you require I look at their ID I photocopy their ID, I even go out and look at the tags on their car to insure it’s licensed in Colorado (might be a rental though so I look at the registration too).

How does any of that tell me that the person I just sold to isn’t a prohibited person?

I submit (again) that if you were really that concerned about your responsibility as a gun owner you wouldn’t sell a single gun w/ out going through an FFL, having the buyer submit to a full background check, and filling out a 4473 that way you’d know for sure that the person wasn’t a prohibited person and you’d have iron clad documentation that you legally sold that firearm (in the form of a receipt from the FFL)

[TlWheatley]

I only sell to someone I know without a FFL Even then I get a copy of drivers license and signed FFL form

[Treo]

I only sell to someone I know without a FFL Even then I get a copy of drivers license and signed FFL form

What pray tell is an "FFL form"?

[santa]

First I live in Washington State which does NOT require any paperwork with the State. The only requirement (correct me if Im wrong NavyLCDR) is I cant sell to a person who I KNOW OR BELIEVE to be in a 'prohibited class', that is a felon or age disqualifier. I get what is basically a 'bill of sale'. It states the specifics of the gun: caliber, manufacturer, serial number, type. It also shows both the seller and buyer names. And of course the sales price and date of sale. The last person I sold a gun to showed me his CPL and so I had reason to believe he is not a felon. Yeah I know ID can be faked but I also knew this person. Showing a person an ID is one thing but there is no way I will let a stranger photo-copy my DL or CPL.

[NavyLCDR]

I only sell to someone I know without a FFL Even then I get a copy of drivers license and signed FFL form

What pray tell is an "FFL form"?

Probably a form 4473.

If I wanted someone to have a copy of my driver's license, CPL, and my signature on a form 4473, I would just buy the gun from an FFL to begin with!

[Treo]

Probably a form 4473.

If I wanted someone to have a copy of my driver's license, CPL, and my signature on a form 4473, I would just buy the gun from an FFL to begin with!

I'm not sure what good it would do to have a 4473 if you aren't an FFL a private party can't do a background check anyway.

[Samefly]

Man a bunch of you all need to take a breather

I respect anyone's right to walk away if asked to see ID. Respect my right to do the same for not showing me ID. Asking to see ID is bare minimum to me and only takes a second. It at the very least shows me you are of legal age and a legal resident of the state (which is required where I live). Whether you want to keep a receipt or not fine... I just posted this to help those that are interested in doing so. Not to have a few of you start fighting over buddha vs darwin. True having a bill of sales doesn't prevent the worst from happening but nothing in life does... having a bill of sales does have aspects that can benefit both parties (unless one of the parties is planning to do something stupid).

Pros:
You can show you at least did the minimum required to make a legal transaction (depending on where you live)
You can keep ownership records
Insurance claims

Cons
The former owner knows you bought a gun from them... wait they already knew that?


Most of you carry a gun for "just in case" why is having a bill of sales such an unimaginable thing to do "just in case"? No one is asking for DNA, social, finger prints, your mother’s maiden name, shoe size blah blah blah rant rant rant. Like it's been said earlier if you don't like it: walk away. There's no need to get all riled up here.