Waffle House Shooting (Good Guy Wins)

[Treo]

It has been my experience that those, in the permit holder community, who seek the title of sheepdog, tend to be authoritarians who use it as a means of self aggrandizement. They tend to derive their feelings of self worth from the position of quasi authority they assume their permit gives them. This is, of course, my opinion but I have also seen posters on gun boards state that our status as permit holders makes us defacto auxiliary police officers. As such I believe the sheepdog mythology is very, very dangerous to the gun owning community and I speak against it at every opportunity.

[NavyLCDR]

It has been my experience that those, in the permit holder community, who seek the title of sheepdog, tend to be authoritarians who use it as a means of self aggrandizement. They tend to derive their feelings of self worth from the position of quasi authority they assume their permit gives them. This is, of course, my opinion but I have also seen posters on gun boards state that our status as permit holders makes us defacto auxiliary police officers. As such I believe the sheepdog mythology is very, very dangerous to the gun owning community and I speak against it at every opportunity.

Good for you. May the force be with you.

[fudo]

And then, on the other hand, nothing that can be said of a group, can be reliably said about a single member of a group. I think your generalizations are too general.

[Rocketgeezer]

A citizen defending himself? How was he defending himself? He only needed to defend himself because he decided to get involved. So many things can go wrong that sometimes it's best not to get involved. What if the BG sees your gun, opens fire in your direction, and hits innocent bystanders? What if he kills you? I would certainly be in a civill suit in my neck of the woods for shooting this guy. You need to think long and hard about these scenarios before leaving the house with a firearm.

Just one question Rich, would your attitude be the same if it was your wife or daughter, behind the counter with a gun pointed at her, and CCW holder sat there and did nothing while she was hurt or killed??????.........as I have said several times before, NOBODY can know what they would do, in a tense situation involving a firearm until it happens, hopefully I never will, before my wife and I got our Permits we were involved in two incidents that could have went very bad, in one of them had I had a weapon at the time I would have used it, not nessessarly to shoot a BG, but I would deffinatly stopped his car, which he was trying to hit us with, in the Waffle House situation, who the hell knows what they would have done unless they were there, that night at that time, in exactly the same situation

[fudo]

It must be a lonely life to live, with no sense of community, no civic duty, no sense of being part of something greater than survival only.
"If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of
servitude better than the animating contest for freedom, go home
and leave us in peace. We seek not your council nor your arms.
Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you, and may posterity
forget that ye were our countrymen."
-Samuel Adams
See my sig line

[maybejim]

It has been my experience that those, in the permit holder community, who seek the title of sheepdog, tend to be authoritarians who use it as a means of self aggrandizement. They tend to derive their feelings of self worth from the position of quasi authority they assume their permit gives them. This is, of course, my opinion but I have also seen posters on gun boards state that our status as permit holders makes us defacto auxiliary police officers. As such I believe the sheepdog mythology is very, very dangerous to the gun owning community and I speak against it at every opportunity.

I'd have to say your "experience" must be either very limited or very so overwhelmed with bias as to be invalid. The purpose of your carrying a gun apparently is only to be used in the direst of situations that threaten you personally. My guess is that attitude will more times than not serve to make sure your gun is never going to be able to be used even for the purpose you think you carry it for. Your reasoning calls for not carrying a gun since it almost never is going to be useful. There are a lot of people that feel the same way, and when I have talked to them, my recommendation is they not carry. By the time they decide they are in the direst of situations it is going to be too late, and if the bad guy spots your gun, he's going to use his and you will have no chance to use yours. No doubt you feel superior to all the poor slobs who carry with the attitude that if someone is threatening deadly force with the capability of carrying through, they will move to end that threat.

Obviously the situation has to be evaluated and the decision must be based on whether the action is more likely to end the threat or make it worse. But I'd sure hate to be partnered with someone with your attitude because that attitude is always going to cause a dangerous delay in action.

[Treo]

It must be a lonely life to live, with no sense of community, no civic duty, no sense of being part of something greater than survival only.

You get used to it

[Scouse]

Every day this pops up on my G mail.

And I must admit the pendelem swings like a feather in a storm.

Quite a bit of nasty in there, as well.

In essence, to me, the question revolves around why you carry a CCW, a very personal question.

Giving an opinion that differs from running away, from any situation, other than one that just concerns you, self, the individual, gets you labeled "Sheepdog" not sure what that is, nice dog though.

One of the best reasons I have seen printed, and I like it, "Because I can" comes to mind.

The why, is connected to the what, yes?
My selection, always the same, Glock 19, TruGlow sights, extended slide release (Glock) 147g Non Plus P, Ranger, spare G17 magazine, Surefire, very bright Flashlight.

As I mostly never go anywhere without my Wife, she is in the loop re use.

I carry a little card, called Auto Insurance every day also, not to get into a crash, but in case I do. Let us just say the Pistol sits in there somewhere, a just in case devise.

A few Sundays ago, walking out of an eatery we go to every couple of weeks, a car pulled up at the kerb, the rear door swung open, a frail old chap slid his legs out, cane in left hand, I stepped forward, and helped him out, I received a smile, and a "Thank you" I am 76, but not frail.

I did not think about that action, I most likely would not think too deeply about a helping hand in a shooting situation either, you just do it. It stems from the way, and where we are all raised. My Dad shared the hot chocolate in the 1940's, in our air raid shelter, Liverpool UK. He did not have to do that either.

[fudo]

You get used to it

I can't think of any reason I would want to.

[snipingshadow]

What happens if the soccer mom at the next table stands up right in front of your gun just as you pull the trigger?

What if you miss?

What if you don’t miss and (as is almost certain to happen) one shot isn’t enough to end the engagement? On a similar note what happens when you fire your first shot and the entire restaurant panics?

998 out of 1000 isn’t 99 % its 99.8% which means that in only 0.2% of cases is the criminal going to fire at all.

That’s like taking 1000$ in dimes,( after reviewing my math, this sentence is wrong it would be like taking 1000 silver dollars ) painting 2 of the dimes red, dumping them in a pile and expecting me to pick out the two red ones blind folded in one try and with those odds you will never convince me that I’m making things better by starting a gun fight.

Also worth noting is that even though the subject of this thread beat all the odds and was able to end the robbery his life appears to have gone to Hell as a result.

So, here I am with my thousand dollars in dimes, I’m blind folded and I have to pick the two red ones but no matter which one I pick I’m going to be dragged through the media, subjected to a trial, (which means I’m going to have to bankrupt myself paying for a lawyer) possibly go to jail, possibly get shot (go read that thread on THR) possibly shoot the wrong person, possibly any one of a million bad outcomes and really no good outcomes.

Taking this one one piece at a time. Nobody is going to stand up when a robbery is taking place and they have told everybody to not move. Once you draw and start firing its a split second decision with multiple rounds going down range and its over before anybody could even stand up. If you miss the only persons who will be standing are the criminals and the cwp holder as in my case. If a friendly is directly in the line of fire then you position yourself to get them out of it. When you fire the restaurant doesnt panic. This isnt the movies. Everybody is in shock even the criminals. 998 out of 1000 eh? Kill all 1000 before they know what hit them and you will guarantee no shots will ever be fired. My life is perfect. I CHOSE to speak the media. A trial is a good thing 'round here. "bankrupt myself paying for a lawyer" wrong. Under *article 6 Protection of persons and property act* section 16-11-450 "A person who uses deadly force as permitted by the provisions of this article or another applicable provision of law is justified in using deadly force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action..." it also goes on to say if the court determines that the shooting was justified then the court awards a reasonable amount of defense funds if a civil action shall be brought against you. Its real simple not to get shot or hit the wrong person. Just have to be aware of the perfect moment to strike and know your own skill set. If you cant fire your weapon without hitting the wrong person or at least have that confidence then you should not be carrying a weapon.