Unarmed defense against an armed assailant

[toreskha]

Just something I thought of off the top of my head...are there any incidents of a knowledgeable, unarmed civilian using what they've learned about firearms to gain the upper hand over an armed assailant?

For example...assuming you can see the gun in good light, you notice the safety is still on (presumably they don't realize it), the "one in the tube" tab is not showing, or you're looking down the barrel of an automatic and can clearly see the firing pin, with no round in front of it. Or maybe it's a Taurus, and you can see the integrated lock is engaged.

I've taken some martial arts classes that deal with close hand-to-hand combat with a gun-wielding attacker. They usually focus on keeping the gun pointing away from you or keeping away from wherever the gun is pointed, and occasionally using joint locks to bang the gun against key points on your opponent.

However, I'd be interested in additional, more advanced tactics that focus on exploiting specific features when available. For example, dropping the magazine (and maybe using that as a weapon) or engaging the safety. An additional item might be, if you happen to have a good grip on the weapon, how to remove it from their hand without making it go off on you, which could be a problem with a Glock. It seems as if there would be useful HHC techniques developed by the US military specifically for fighting an opponent in close quarters who is using a Makarov, and vice-versa for 1911s from the Russians.

Not that HHC with a gunman is a good idea by any means...but it never hurts to be ready just in case.

I'm still looking for the video, but awhile back, a guy came into a convenience store with a gun, and stupidly laid in down on the counter to try and grab the register. The clerk grabbed the gun and used it against the BG.

In any case, if someone is pointing a gun at me (if he manages to get the drop on me, that is), he can have everything I have...until he gets to my XD-40. At that point, it will be a new ball game!

[HK4U]

There was an incident a couple months back here in the Fort Worth,Dallas area of a home invasion. The husband and wife fought back and the wife managed to take the shot gun from ome of the intruders and kill him with it. I think I may have posted it at the time. I will see if I can find it.

[HK4U]

Well I didn't post it but here it is.

Texas Homeowner Kills Intruder

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From Foxnews.com:

BLUE MOUND, Texas — When two gunmen smashed through the glass front door of her suburban Fort Worth home, Kellie Hoehn didn't think twice.

The 34-year-old mother of two grabbed a shotgun that had been pointed at her face early Wednesday, starting a struggle that ended with one intruder killed with his own weapon and another in the hospital.

"I wasn't going to let them get to my babies," she said, recalling the moment when she pushed up the muzzle of the shotgun, pointing it away from her children's rooms.

Although the intruders told her to keep quiet, she screamed for her husband. She told her 12-year-old son, who was awakened by the sound of the shattering glass front door, to get his 5-year-old sister and hide.

"It was like a horror movie," her husband, 32-year-old Keith Hoehn, told the Fort Worth Star-Telegram. "I thought I was a dead man. We're fighting for our lives."

With Kellie Hoehn clinging to the weapon's muzzle, her husband tackled the man who held the shotgun. She knocked the intruder in the head with a jar candle, giving her husband a chance to wrest the shotgun.

By then the tussle had spilled out onto the front lawn. Keith Hoehn shot one of the men who had a pistol, police said. Wounded, that man ran away.

Then the intruder who initially had the shotgun charged Keith Hoehn.

Kellie Hoehn told The Dallas Morning News that she screamed at her husband, "Shoot him, shoot him, shoot him."

Her husband fired the shotgun and the man fell to the ground. Then the shot man lunged a second time.

"Well, I shot him again, and I guess that was it," Keith Hoehn said.

Dakota Scott Benoit, 20, of Richland Hills, was pronounced dead at a hospital. John Garland Pierson, 25, of Haltom City, was in critical condition and in police custody at the hospital.

"I am not happy that someone is dead," Kellie Hoehn said. "But I am glad that my family is alive."

Police said Pierson was shot in the left arm and the bullet pierced his diaphragm and other organs but his condition was improving. He will face charges of burglary of habitation with intent to commit another felony, police said.

Investigators say the couple were just defending their family and probably won't be charged.
__________________
Pack your bags, were going on a guilt trip!

[tattedupboy]

Originally Posted by HK4U

Well I didn't post it but here it is.

Texas Homeowner Kills Intruder

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From Foxnews.com:

BLUE MOUND, Texas — When two gunmen smashed through the glass front door of her suburban Fort Worth home, Kellie Hoehn didn't think twice.

The 34-year-old mother of two grabbed a shotgun that had been pointed at her face early Wednesday, starting a struggle that ended with one intruder killed with his own weapon and another in the hospital.

"I wasn't going to let them get to my babies," she said, recalling the moment when she pushed up the muzzle of the shotgun, pointing it away from her children's rooms.

Although the intruders told her to keep quiet, she screamed for her husband. She told her 12-year-old son, who was awakened by the sound of the shattering glass front door, to get his 5-year-old sister and hide.

"It was like a horror movie," her husband, 32-year-old Keith Hoehn, told the Fort Worth Star-Telegram. "I thought I was a dead man. We're fighting for our lives."

With Kellie Hoehn clinging to the weapon's muzzle, her husband tackled the man who held the shotgun. She knocked the intruder in the head with a jar candle, giving her husband a chance to wrest the shotgun.

By then the tussle had spilled out onto the front lawn. Keith Hoehn shot one of the men who had a pistol, police said. Wounded, that man ran away.

Then the intruder who initially had the shotgun charged Keith Hoehn.

Kellie Hoehn told The Dallas Morning News that she screamed at her husband, "Shoot him, shoot him, shoot him."

Her husband fired the shotgun and the man fell to the ground. Then the shot man lunged a second time.

"Well, I shot him again, and I guess that was it," Keith Hoehn said.

Dakota Scott Benoit, 20, of Richland Hills, was pronounced dead at a hospital. John Garland Pierson, 25, of Haltom City, was in critical condition and in police custody at the hospital.

"I am not happy that someone is dead," Kellie Hoehn said. "But I am glad that my family is alive."

Police said Pierson was shot in the left arm and the bullet pierced his diaphragm and other organs but his condition was improving. He will face charges of burglary of habitation with intent to commit another felony, police said.

Investigators say the couple were just defending their family and probably won't be charged.
__________________
Pack your bags, were going on a guilt trip!

I remember that story. It made my day.

[DarrellM5]

I attended the Empty Hand Defense course at Front Sight recently. We spent a considerable amount of time working through various scenarios where the bad guy has a pistol or other weapon.

These defensive techniques revolve around the principal that "action beats reaction". If you know what to do and have practiced it until it's very smooth, the chances of the bad guy getting the shot off are almost zero. We tried these techniques with a person using a rubber band around the fingers to simulate a gun. Even though the person knew what you were going to do and was anticipating it, they couldn't hit you with the rubber band once you made your move.

Success in this endeavor required moving quickly and with great violence.

[Austin]

Originally Posted by DarrellM5

I attended the Empty Hand Defense course at Front Sight recently. We spent a considerable amount of time working through various scenarios where the bad guy has a pistol or other weapon.

These defensive techniques revolve around the principal that "action beats reaction". If you know what to do and have practiced it until it's very smooth, the chances of the bad guy getting the shot off are almost zero. We tried these techniques with a person using a rubber band around the fingers to simulate a gun. Even though the person knew what you were going to do and was anticipating it, they couldn't hit you with the rubber band once you made your move.

Success in this endeavor required moving quickly and with great violence.

Actually..... in the training that I have had it is considered guaranteed that the tango will get a shot off. The plan is for it to go off in a direction other than yours. Action beats reaction but there is still a reaction.

[toreskha]

Originally Posted by HK4U

With Kellie Hoehn clinging to the weapon's muzzle, her husband tackled the man who held the shotgun. She knocked the intruder in the head with a jar candle, giving her husband a chance to wrest the shotgun.

By then the tussle had spilled out onto the front lawn. Keith Hoehn shot one of the men who had a pistol, police said. Wounded, that man ran away.

Police said Pierson was shot in the left arm and the bullet pierced his diaphragm and other organs but his condition was improving. He will face charges of burglary of habitation with intent to commit another felony, police said.

Wait, did Keith Hoehn shoot the other guy with his own pistol, or did he fire a bullet out of a shotgun?

[DarrellM5]

The bad guy might get a shot off, depending on how fast you drive your elbow or head through his face, but, like you mentioned, the gun will not be pointing in your direction. If you're fast enough, you'll turn his switch off before his brain can send an impulse to his trigger finger.

[Rht4162]

i suggest you guys read up on the krav maga (Israeli) style of disarmament. its very quick, to the point and effective.