Scary incident today

[krazyk]

)

[krazyk]

)

[The Gunny]

1) Keep you booger hook off the bang switch. 2) Every weapon is ALWAYS loaded.

[OldOwl]

Originally Posted by Ryan H

Sorta reminds me of my roomate, we were having a small gathering at my house a few months ago and the discussion turned to firearms. A friend we had over said she had never held or shot one, so I went and got my G22 from the bedroom. Unloaded it, checked the chamber, etc.

I have a rule that I will not tell someone "it's unloaded", they have to properly check it themselves. I also will not accept someone else saying "its unloaded" when handed to me, I check it myself!

Long story short, I demonstrated how to check the chamber and magazine on the Glock for a bullet, let her see the difference between a loaded chamber and unloaded chamber, and a magazine with a bullet in it and without a bullet in it, as well as let her hold the bullet.

After retrieving the bullet, I handed her the weapon and she started looking at it without checking to see if it was loaded, my #1 rule that I had JUST discussed with her! Well, that being said, I mention it, and she has trouble locking the slide back. My idiot roomate grabs the gun and says, "Just do this", and demonstrated his stupidity. He loads the mag, racks the slide, and with his had OVER the ejection port, racks the slide again real quick, explaining that this will clear a round out of the chamber. He then said it is safe to point the firearm in a safe direction and "dry fire it." BANG!!!!

... Thank God it was in a safe direction. I no longer let this moron handle my weapons. My bedroom door is latched shut with a $30 lock when I am not home.

You handed her a gun with the slide closed? That's instant termination from the club I belong to. Magazine removed, slide locked open. Always. It will also prevent anyone from passing the MA safety course. I was warned when I went to the officer in charge of licensing at the local police station by my instructor, who practices trying to fool students at this. My instructor said "If he hands you his pistol and says "Check this out" DON'T take it from his hand unless the cylinder is open or the slide is back and mag removed. You won't get your CC permit.

[Ryan H]

Originally Posted by OldOwl

You handed her a gun with the slide closed? That's instant termination from the club I belong to. Magazine removed, slide locked open. Always. It will also prevent anyone from passing the MA safety course. I was warned when I went to the officer in charge of licensing at the local police station by my instructor, who practices trying to fool students at this. My instructor said "If he hands you his pistol and says "Check this out" DON'T take it from his hand unless the cylinder is open or the slide is back and mag removed. You won't get your CC permit.

Well, quite frankly sir, no offense, but I am perfectly adequate in the firearm safety department. The reason I won't hand my own pistol to someone with the slide locked open is because one of the first things they do with it is hit the slide release, slamming it forward on an empty chamber. This bothers me as it can lead to peening of slide components and the barrel.

I don't think I can ever recall any firearms shop in the area ever handing me a pistol with the slide locked open as well. Do I need an FFL to hand someone a known, double checked unloaded pistol with the slide closed? Sorry, but that is a bit rediculous.

My rule of checking, and my second rule of "its always loaded, whether its loaded or not" is good enough for me because I follow them, and if anyone around me doesn't follow suit, I will leave the area and never be around them when they are handling a weapon again.

[DJ58]

Originally Posted by HK4U

Not good. Glad no one was hurt. You might want to talk to him about gun safety and mixing drinking and guns.

exactly.

[Glock Fan]

Originally Posted by Ryan H

Sorta reminds me of my roomate, we were having a small gathering at my house a few months ago and the discussion turned to firearms. A friend we had over said she had never held or shot one, so I went and got my G22 from the bedroom. Unloaded it, checked the chamber, etc.

I have a rule that I will not tell someone "it's unloaded", they have to properly check it themselves. I also will not accept someone else saying "its unloaded" when handed to me, I check it myself!

Long story short, I demonstrated how to check the chamber and magazine on the Glock for a bullet, let her see the difference between a loaded chamber and unloaded chamber, and a magazine with a bullet in it and without a bullet in it, as well as let her hold the bullet.

After retrieving the bullet, I handed her the weapon and she started looking at it without checking to see if it was loaded, my #1 rule that I had JUST discussed with her! Well, that being said, I mention it, and she has trouble locking the slide back. My idiot roomate grabs the gun and says, "Just do this", and demonstrated his stupidity. He loads the mag, racks the slide, and with his had OVER the ejection port, racks the slide again real quick, explaining that this will clear a round out of the chamber. He then said it is safe to point the firearm in a safe direction and "dry fire it." BANG!!!!

... Thank God it was in a safe direction. I no longer let this moron handle my weapons. My bedroom door is latched shut with a $30 lock when I am not home.

I have a rule that I will not tell someone "it's unloaded", they have to properly check it themselves. I also will not accept someone else saying "its unloaded" when handed to me, I check it myself!

Good practice, however you might want to consider that there are folks out there who NEVER handled a firearm. Think back to when you first were introduced to firearms. All of the different things to remember, the feelings about something that could cause serious injury or death etc. With that in mind, do you really expect a person handling a firearm for the first time to remember the procedure of how to clear a firearm and make it safe?


Long story short, I demonstrated how to check the chamber and magazine on the Glock for a bullet, let her see the difference between a loaded chamber and unloaded chamber, and a magazine with a bullet in it and without a bullet in it, as well as let her hold the bullet.

It's good that you wanted to educate her on what a "loaded" chamber looks like versus an "unloaded" chamber. It's also great that you wanted her to see and hold an actual cartridge. Your intentions were good, but in practice were extremely dangerous. I would highly recommend that you invest in a bunch of "snap caps" or "training cartridges". If you don't have any, I'd be happy to send you some if you let me know what caliber(s) you need. When in a "teaching" setting, you want to be sure to secure all live ammo and keep it out of the vicinity where the training is taking place. This greatly reduces the chances of ND incidents. Seriously, PM me if you need the "snap caps" or "training cartridges". BTW, I italicized the word "bullet" because the proper term is "cartridge". Had you loaded the gun with a "bullet", then it would have never gone off. A "bullet" in absence of the case, primer, and powder will not fire out of a firearm.

After retrieving the bullet, I handed her the weapon and she started looking at it without checking to see if it was loaded, my #1 rule that I had JUST discussed with her! Well, that being said, I mention it, and she has trouble locking the slide back. My idiot roomate grabs the gun and says, "Just do this", and demonstrated his stupidity. He loads the mag, racks the slide, and with his had OVER the ejection port, racks the slide again real quick, explaining that this will clear a round out of the chamber. He then said it is safe to point the firearm in a safe direction and "dry fire it." BANG!!!!

As explained earlier, if you didn't have any live ammo in the room, there wouldn't have been a ND. Another thing is that when in a teaching situation, you want to keep the firearm(s), magazine(s), speed loader(s), ammo, etc. under your control. Set up a table or other designated area and set some ground rules. This way you don't have others reaching in and interfering with your training session. BTW, you may want to consider changing your vocabulary and use the word "firearm", "handgun", "gun", "pistol", etc in lieu of the word "weapon". The reason behind this is that the word "weapon" implies that the device is intended for use against other human beings in a "war" or "combat" situation. Refraining from using this word will make dealing with the "anti-gun" types a lot easier.

I'm glad that nobody was injured. It could have turned out a lot worse. YOU were as much at fault in the incident as your roommate. You may believe that your firearms training is "adequate", but believe me when I say that you could always learn something when it comes to firearms safety. I'm a NRA Certified Instructor and pick up little tips and concepts with every class I teach or training session that I attend. I've learned about safety on a several visits to the range.

It's great that you want to educate others and introduce them to firearms. We all have a responsibility to do it safely so that everyone has an enjoyable experience and we don't bring any more negativity to firearms ownership.



gf

[Glock Fan]

Originally Posted by Ryan H

Well, quite frankly sir, no offense, but I am perfectly adequate in the firearm safety department. The reason I won't hand my own pistol to someone with the slide locked open is because one of the first things they do with it is hit the slide release, slamming it forward on an empty chamber. This bothers me as it can lead to peening of slide components and the barrel.

As a Glock armorer, I assure you that cycling the slide and dry firing will not hurt your Glock pistol. The "peening" on the slide is caused by live fire. In most cases, it will take several thousand rounds of factory ammo before peening is apparent. I have a Glock 23, which fires the .40 s&w round. This round is the "hottest" of all rounds that Glock makes pistols for. I have nearly 10,000 rounds of factory ammo through my Glock 23 and so far no peening. You may see this on the older (1st and 2nd generation ) models of the 9mm or .40 s&w family. Any Glock pistol with the finger grooves (3rd generation or higher) shouldn't have this problem.

Even if the safe handling procedure added "wear & tear" on my firearm, I feel that it's a very bad practice to compromise safety for a piece of property that can be replaced.


gf

[Ryan H]

Thank you for the advice, Glock Fan. Your input was constructive and informative. As far as my vocabulary, I know what the term "cartridge" is, I just couldn't dig it out of the back of my head at the moment so I resorted to a generalized term that most people know.. haha

As far as "weapon", that's the security officer speaking in me.

Next time I end up teaching anyone anything, if I even do, I will be sure to follow your advice with the snap caps and not letting anyone interfere. You are right, if it were a snap cap in the chamber there would not be a hole in my floor. I also could have quickly retrieved my gun and demonstrated that it would have just fired if it had live ammo in it.

In retrospect, you live and learn, and believe me I learned a very valuable lesson there.

[ricbak]

Ryan, GF Thank you for your thoughts. Most Excellent.

This is a quote from the wiphe's post-it note on her monitor.....

~Trials are but lessons that you failed to learn presented once again, so where you made a faulty choice before you now can now make a better one..ACIM~

Thank God nobody got hurt.... So What have we learned?