gunman opens fire in NC nursing home

[stumpjumper101]

I had just left my Mother who is in a center much like this one when I heard about the shooting. One thing ifor sure is if they allowed residents to have guns in that center my Mother would not be there. Very few of the residents in that facility could be trusted to carry a gun or even a knife around. As for the staff being armed I would be concerned about that as they way the have to interact with the residents it would be very easy for one to get hold of the gun from a staff member even if carried in a retention holster. The only door that is unlocked for the public to enter is the front door.

Visiting the residents in an Alzheimer's faciltiy is both tragic and funny at the same time. You have to laugh at the residents but keep an eye on them at the same time because yuou can never tell what they will do next. Afriend of mine lived nesxt door to his wifes father and mother. One day his fil came over and said, "You know that woman that lives in that house over there. The next time she fusses at me I am going to kill her". The sad part was that he did not even know that the woman was his wife and he actually meant he was going to kill her and would not have hesitated to do it.

Not all the crazy people are in the asylum and we have just seen that. Bad things are going to happen, we just need to try and minimize them as much as possible.

yup and the reason i said im sure the residents are not allowed to have them was for obvios reasons, a huge percentage of patients in nursing homes , rehab facilitys and assisted living communities have alzhiemers or dementia. someone who does a proper job of concealing should not have to worry about someone taking it from them. because no one will know they have it until heaven forbid its needed.

[tattedupboy]

scary. more multiple random shootings are happening. Why? I do not know.

What we do know, however, is that the uptick in seemingly random mass shootings won't be decreased by new laws that restrict the rights of law abiding citizens. What can be done to reduce such incidents? I don't know. However, what I do know is that taking away people's guns certainly won't accomplish it.

[KimberPB]

What we do know, however, is that the uptick in seemingly random mass shootings won't be decreased by new laws that restrict the rights of law abiding citizens. What can be done to reduce such incidents? I don't know. However, what I do know is that taking away people's guns certainly won't accomplish it.

Unfortunately it does appear these are either getting more common or just reported more. One thing I'd like to point out is that all the mass shooting I can think of over the past couple years seemed to always be at either gun free zones or were no one is armed. This tragic even is no different. The man went on a shooting spree until he meets armed resistance, a police officer in this case. When people are armed and have a way to defend themselves this crap gets ended quickly.

[gunshrink]

Do it the way some churches are - not everybody armed but a "designated shooter" who is someone like us but works there. I mean someone with heavy training, good sense and a good holster that cannot be accessed except by the one carrying. Doesn't take much to interceed with someone like this and then more people would be alive and the BG taking the dirt nap.

[FN1910]

yup and the reason i said im sure the residents are not allowed to have them was for obvios reasons, a huge percentage of patients in nursing homes , rehab facilitys and assisted living communities have alzhiemers or dementia. someone who does a proper job of concealing should not have to worry about someone taking it from them. because no one will know they have it until heaven forbid its needed.

Actually there is a big difference between each of the facilities. You do not mix the rehab, nursing home, assisted living, retirement homes and alzheimersgroups together. Each have their own special needs and the public needs to be educated on these. With the work that many of the staff have to do and the mentality of many of the residents it would be very hard to conceal a weapon from them. If you have not been exposed to it first hand it is hard to understand the actions and mentality of what happens in these homes. With Alzheimers sufferes their mainf tends to regress and they can easily go into the mentality of a teen-ager or child and become as sneaky and resourceful as a child. They can easily discover a gun on you, think that it is a BB gun and want to play with it as one.

After seeing what goes on in the facility where my Mother stays if they were to allow guns either by the staff or residents she would immediately be moved to another facility. I know that this may sound like I am anti but I would rather take the chance of a gunman bursting in like in NC than what I have seen my mother and her neighbors do. You have to laugh at their antics or else you would cry. I hoe that none of you ever have to go through it.

[stumpjumper101]

Actually there is a big difference between each of the facilities. You do not mix the rehab, nursing home, assisted living, retirement homes and alzheimersgroups together. Each have their own special needs and the public needs to be educated on these. With the work that many of the staff have to do and the mentality of many of the residents it would be very hard to conceal a weapon from them. If you have not been exposed to it first hand it is hard to understand the actions and mentality of what happens in these homes. With Alzheimers sufferes their mainf tends to regress and they can easily go into the mentality of a teen-ager or child and become as sneaky and resourceful as a child. They can easily discover a gun on you, think that it is a BB gun and want to play with it as one.

After seeing what goes on in the facility where my Mother stays if they were to allow guns either by the staff or residents she would immediately be moved to another facility. I know that this may sound like I am anti but I would rather take the chance of a gunman bursting in like in NC than what I have seen my mother and her neighbors do. You have to laugh at their antics or else you would cry. I hoe that none of you ever have to go through it.

yes i agree with you if you didnt like the idea of someone carrying in her nursing home you have every right to move her. yes i have been exposed to it quite alot over the past 18 years that i have spent in ems. most of the facilitys here in va have seperate wings for the special needs patients in which their wing is locked down from entry or exit by unauthorized persons. as well as have a rehab and nursing unit as well. the assisted living comunties here are generally small 1 floor condo's where they are visited once or twice daily and their lawn is taken care of and they are free to come and go as they please. we also have some hotel like facilitys for assisted living to for those not in immediate need of nursing service. i dont peg your comments as anti gun, i just believe we should have no restrictions to which where we can carry. with exception of detention facilitys and court rooms due to the fact one is full of desperate people who will do anything to get out and the other is filled with emotional family members of victims who might try to serve justice if the justice system doesnt serve them

[Glock Fan]

yes i agree with you if you didnt like the idea of someone carrying in her nursing home you have every right to move her. yes i have been exposed to it quite alot over the past 18 years that i have spent in ems. most of the facilitys here in va have seperate wings for the special needs patients in which their wing is locked down from entry or exit by unauthorized persons. as well as have a rehab and nursing unit as well. the assisted living comunties here are generally small 1 floor condo's where they are visited once or twice daily and their lawn is taken care of and they are free to come and go as they please. we also have some hotel like facilitys for assisted living to for those not in immediate need of nursing service. i dont peg your comments as anti gun, i just believe we should have no restrictions to which where we can carry. with exception of detention facilitys and court rooms due to the fact one is full of desperate people who will do anything to get out and the other is filled with emotional family members of victims who might try to serve justice if the justice system doesnt serve them

I'd add "psychatric facilities" and "psychiatric wings" of hospitals and treatment facilities, as some of the people being treated in these facilities are "court ordered".



gf

[stumpjumper101]

I'd add "psychatric facilities" and "psychiatric wings" of hospitals and treatment facilities, as some of the people being treated in these facilities are "court ordered".



gf

i will agree to that.

[alelks]

Here's today's NC Grass Roots Email I just received:

Grass Roots North Carolina, P.O. Box 10684, Raleigh, NC 27605
919-664-8565, Welcome to GRNC, GRNC Alert Hotline: (919) 562-4137

GRNC Alert 03-30-09:
Pinelake Health and Rehab: More killings in 'gun free' zones

Worth noting is a quote from Carthage Police Chief Chris McKenzie since the following piece was written. McKenzie said, "A lot more lives would have been lost, I honestly feel, had he not done what he did. For certain." Just imagine how many more lives would have been saved had other trained citizens had the option of being armed there.

From Paul Valone's Charlotte Gun Examiner column:
Charlotte Gun Rights Examiner: Pinelake Health and Rehab: More killings in 'gun free' zones (new video)

On Sunday morning, gunman Robert Stewart barged into Pinelake Health and Rehab in Carthage, North Carolina, and killed seven patients and a nurse, wounding three others. As in previous massacres, the killer picked a so-called "gun free" zone where firearms are officially prohibited. According to an employee of Peak Resources Incorporated, which operates Pinelake and five other health care facilities, all of their facilities are posted against concealed weapons.

As in numerous other rampages, Stewart was stopped after he was shot by an armed individual, in this case 25-year-old Carthage police officer Justin Garner, who was himself among the wounded.

And as in other cases, authorities were promptly alerted when Pinelake resident Ellery Chishole first called her 14-year-old granddaughter but despite arriving in less than ten minutes, were unable to stop the shooter from killing seven people in moments.


Unclear is whether Stewart had any connection to the 90-bed nursing home, leading some to suggest he may have picked it because concealed handgun permit-holders are prohibited from carrying firearms for self-protection. Associated Press accounts say his estranged wife may work there, but ex-wife Sue Griffin said she had no idea whether her ex-husband was somehow connected to the nursing home or why he would shoot people there, further noting: "He did have some violent tendencies from time to time. I wouldn't put it past him. I hate to say it, but it is true."

Due largely to the efforts of nascent gun rights organization Grass Roots North Carolina (GRNC), the state passed a concealed handgun law in 1995 to allow citizens who have undergone background checks and training to protect themselves and their families against exactly such predations. However, Mecklenburg County Senator "Fountain" Odom chaired a subcommittee which weakened the legislation by amending it to include numerous places where concealed handguns are prohibited, including restaurants with on-premises alcohol consumption permits and some public parks.

Although health care facilities are not officially prohibited from allowing concealed handguns, among the weakening amendments that became law is G.S. 14-415.11(c), under which guns are prohibited "where notice that carrying a concealed handgun is prohibited by the posting of a conspicuous notice or statement by the person in legal possession or control of the premises." Because owners of private property, including merchants, could already legally prohibit concealed handguns, the measure was intended to encourage posting.

When then-Governor Jim Hunt arranged for the "Governor's Crime Commission" to distribute thousands of signs posting against concealed carry, GRNC responded by creating a "Don't Buy List" of posted merchants, with instructions for supporters of the law to contact them.

Faced with an organized boycott, hundreds of posted merchants, including Lowes Home Improvement Centers, Wilco convenience stores, West Marine outlets and posted WalMart stores removed "no concealed carry" signs.

Businesses which were less vulnerable to the boycott, however, refused to remove signs. Among the facilities commonly posted in the state today are shopping malls and health care facilities like Pinelake.

In a controlled study covering 19 years, researcher John R. Lott found that the number of multiple-victim public shootings in states which adopted concealed handgun laws declined by 84%. Deaths from these shootings plummeted on average by 90%, injuries by 82%. Higher arrest rates and increased use of the death penalty slightly reduced the incidence of these events, but the effects were never statistically significant.

Until Sunday, North Carolina had not experienced a single multiple victim public homicide such as recently occurred in Alabama and Germany, suggesting that the state's concealed handgun law may have deterred such homicides. Significantly, the lone massacre has now occurred in one of the relatively few places where concealed handguns are commonly prohibited.

While sound arguments could be made for prohibiting firearms in nursing homes and hospitals by patients who may not be able to retain control of them, staff and visitors who have cleared the hurdles to obtain concealed handgun permits could not only deter future tragedies, but could respond in minutes or even seconds, potentially saving scores of lives.




IMMEDIATE ACTION REQUIRED

* Read Paul Valone's Examiner piece and be sure to Digg it while you are there:
Charlotte Gun Rights Examiner: Pinelake Health and Rehab: More killings in 'gun free' zones (new video)

* Watch the News 14 interview: News 14 | 24 Hour Local News | TOP STORIES | Gun control debated after Carthage shooting

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[Glock Fan]

....but they're "trained to heal".......




gf