Online MSNBC Poll on Restaurant Carry

[AZSATT]

You're right. I don't drink nor go into bars. But I respect the armed citizen's right to defend themself wherever they go.

You seem to be a bit on the confrontational side for a relative newb. Why is that? I don't think usacarry served you with a draft notice. What gives? Are you really an upset Hillary supporter looking to vent or just ornery in general?

[Cocked _and_Locked]

Just ornery in general. Look, as surfcc so succincly stated, guns and booze don't mix. Any fool knows that. Not to minimize surfcc's contribution or suggest he's a fool, on the contrary. So it follows quite simply and logically, that a law intended to prevent people having guns in bars cannot be all bad. Smart people carrying concealed don't go into bars, maybe don't even drink at all (like yourself), and certainly don't carry into bars and proceed to drink. I hope these are self asserting facts. But never forget the one simple fact that PEOPLE ARE STUPID, generally speaking. Not all, probably not even a majority, but enough to cause problems.

So what do you do about that? You tell me.

[JJFlash]

Ummm...whack 'em? Nah...can't do that. Sterilize 'em? Probably won't fly. Ship 'em off to...nope, won't work either. I know...let's decrease my rights and freedom because of the stupid people! Yeah, that's it!

[Cocked _and_Locked]

No JJ. What's needed is the right balance. Don't ask me what it is, I don't know. One thing is for sure. Certain specific circumstances or situations dictate more clearly. I am not challenging your right to carry, strictly speaking. But in this particular situation, it is my opinion (being a gun totin' troglodyte myself, as I like to opine) that it is clear to me that your individual right to carry a firearm into a drinking establishment, regardless of whether or not you drink, is less important than the general public's right not to have to worry about strays and ricochets at the gas station across the street late Saturday night. The specific factors of alcohol, guns and stupid people all potentially being together in the same place makes this clear to me.

[JJFlash]

But the problem is that this argument can be applied to any circumstance. E.G., Why should stupid people be allowed to drive cars? The best we can do is stay focused on freedom as the underlying principle, and then prosecute the stupid when it's proven they can't handle it.

[Cocked _and_Locked]

Originally Posted by JJFlash

...Why should stupid people be allowed to drive cars?

But they are not. Enough speeding tickets and they lose their license or can't get insurance. Do people have to die to prove allowing guns in bars is a bad idea?

And if you add the alcohol factor once again, I believe a DUI will pretty much stop your driving experience at least temporarily, and it turns into vehicular manslaughter at some point so, JJ, you were saying? Stupid people ARE NOT allowed to drive, ESPECIALLY after they kill someone.

Using the driving analogy doesn't work here - false analogy. People have got to drive. Almost everyone. It's a basic requirement to get along in this society of ours. Concealed carry in bars? No so much.

[JJFlash]

But there ya go...you prosecuted that stupid (perhaps drunk) driver and now he can't drive. Hopefully, he hadn't already killed someone. Same argument for carry - you abuse it, you lose it.

[Cocked _and_Locked]

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

[ClearSightTactical]

The majority of comments there concern me greatly. Why do people feel its OK to interprut the constitution in ways that benefit them? It is illegal to consume alcohol and possess a firearm (in my state anyway). If my friends go to a bar and I tag along even though I don't drink I lose my RKBA because other people around me are drinking? Other people around me drinking sounds like a very good reason TO be armed.

"I stongly agree with the 2nd amendment BUT not in a place that serves alcohol"....seriously??

[ClearSightTactical]

I do have a question for you 'Cocked & Locked'. I am being respectful, but would like your insight.

The argument of the public right of "not have to worry about" strays and ricochets is more important than the 2nd amendment.

What about my right "not to worry about" some drunk attacking me with a tire iron in the parking lot, or someone inside the bar attacking me with a knife because I "looked at his woman"? The right "not to worry" is not a protected right but rather civil matters should this ever occur NOT criminal matters.

Alcohol, and stupid people=? VICTIMS.
Alcohol, Stupid People, CCW=SURVIVORS

Again, not trying to "flame" you. I'm just curious what path of reasoning lead you to your argument.