Intoxicated while Carrying

[ricbak]

Originally Posted by Red Hat

The best thing you can do is ask your lawyer!

Getting back to the first question, Intox while carring...
RH is right.. Seek proper legal advise first... Michigan Fire Arm laws have a multi-level of infraction for intoxicated...

28.425k Acceptance of license as implied consent to submit to chemical analysis of breath, blood, or urine.
Sec. 5k. (1) Acceptance of a license issued under this act to carry a concealed pistol constitutes implied consent to submit to
a chemical analysis under this section. This section also applies to individuals listed in section 12a(a) to (f).
(2) An individual shall not carry a concealed pistol while he or she is under the influence of alcoholic liquor or a controlled substance or while having a bodily alcohol content prohibited under this section. A person who violates this section is responsible for a state civil infraction or guilty of a crime as follows:
26 FIREARMS LAWS OF MICHIGAN — STATUTES
(a) If the person was under the influence of alcoholic liquor or a controlled substance or a combination of alcoholic liquor and a controlled substance, or had a bodily alcohol content of .10 or more grams per 100 milliliters of blood, per 210 liters of breath, or per 67 milliliters of urine, the individual is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 93 days or $100.00, or both. The court shall order the concealed weapon licensing board that issued the individual a license to carry a concealed pistol to permanently revoke the license. The concealed weapon licensing board shall permanently revoke the license as ordered by the court.
(b) If the person had a bodily alcohol content of .08 or more but less than .10 grams per 100 milliliters of blood, per 210 liters of breath, or per 67 milliliters of urine, the individual is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than
93 days or $100.00, or both. The court may order the concealed weapon licensing board that issued the individual a license to carry a concealed pistol to revoke the license for not more than 3 years. The concealed weapon licensing board shall revoke the license as ordered by the court.
(c) If the person had a bodily alcohol content of .02 or more but less than .08 grams per 100 milliliters of blood, per 210 liters of breath, or per 67 milliliters of urine, the individual is responsible for a state civil infraction and may be fined not more
than $100.00. The court may order the concealed weapon licensing board that issued the individual the license to revoke the license for 1 year. The concealed weapon licensing board shall revoke the license as ordered by the court. The court shall notify
the concealed weapon licensing board that issued the individual a license to carry a concealed pistol if an individual is found responsible for a subsequent violation of this subdivision.

With Hunting Season on us now, mixing hunting and any kind of substance abuse is not wise at all.

[netentity]

Originally Posted by ClearSightTactical

Frankly, the attitude of 1 or 2 is OK gets people in trouble. 1 or 2 what? Beers, Shots of Whiskey?

It should be in your drivers handbook published by your DMV that it's all the same. All of them put about .02 BAC in your system. Most people metabolize .02 BAC per hour. I know it's in the CA and NV CDL handbooks. I don't recall if it's in the non-commercial drivers handbook. Last time I took a basic test was when I transferred my license to Nevada back in 1992.

If you're carrying a gun you should NOT be drinking. I think that ONE DRINK of alcohol should be grounds for a DUI.

There are two States where that won't happen; Florida and Nevada. Florida will still issue if you have one misdemeanor DUI on your record within three years prior to applying to your CWFL. Florida has been shall issue for over 20 years with presently over 600K licensees as of their last report on 8/31/2009 with roughly 10% being out of State. They must be doing something right by making mulitple DUIs a prohibiting condition where most States it's any DUI within three to five years prior to applying.

Then again, I'm in New Mexico where fatalities of DUI are some of the highest in the nation.

Being drunk, and driving (and/or) are not protected rights under the constitution, so I think it fair to say that a person who chooses to drink (even 1 or 2) before driving should be sentenced for DUI

That however will never happen. If there was data there to substantiate this we would have a much lower limit than .08 BAC which is the nationwide standard for non-commercial DUI.

The reason you have a high incidence of DUI in NM is because of the high native American population. Domestic violence, drug and alcohol abuse is not uncommon in States with a native American nations within their borders. Before some plays a race card against me, I am at least an eighth if not a quarter native American myself on my mother's side; enough to get a BIA card and admission to a tribe if I research it.

Nevada has about 800K more residents in the State than New Mexico. We have legalized prostitution (in rural counties), gambling, easily obtainable alcohol, some Indian Nations, legalized gambling State wide (except for Boulder City which outlawed it during the construction of Hoover Dam), pro-gun, no NFA prohibitions yet we have a smaller incidence of DUI than New Mexico. I have told people many times, if you have any kind of addiction you will find it here in Nevada. If you're not careful this State, it will chew you up, spit out one half and pass the other half through its lower GI tract especially in the Las Vegas metro area.

Given your reasoning we should have a higher incidence of DUI, but according to the data I have found, we have less than 75% of the total incident of DUI State wide over NM and we are a more populous State. Would you care to explain those demographics to me why DUI isn't as prevalent here as it is in your State yet alcohol is easier to get than water in most of Nevada?

Oh BTW, one of the counties with a high volume of legalized brothels has a high incidence of open carry. Nye County, particularly Pahrump with a legalized brothel within city limits has a majority of the citizens open carry in city hall. City hall tried to outlaw it, well when the meeting was full of Pahrump residents open carrying they thought twice about it.

[doming83]

ClearSightTactical

Just FYI: I think it should be a felony

I think you should be allowed to drink and carry responsibly if you want, but if u wanna get drunk you shoud do it at home. Why is it that just because someone thinks that some people cant drink and, carry responsibly they should restrict everyone elses rights.

[ronwill]

I believe, as a minimum, carrying while drinking should be treated the same as driving while drinking. Everyone knows alcohol affects your judgment and physical capabilities. Many will do things after a couple of drinks that they wouldn't do otherwise.

[ClearSightTactical]

Originally Posted by doming83

ClearSightTactical

I think you should be allowed to drink and carry responsibly if you want, but if u wanna get drunk you shoud do it at home. Why is it that just because someone thinks that some people cant drink and, carry responsibly they should restrict everyone elses rights.

Good point. I have no place to tell another person that when they're drinking they've lost their 2nd amendment. I do think that it is counter-productive to gun owner image, and very irresponsible. However, that statement from me about "one drink=no gun" may seem just as bad as the AWB to some of you. I don't drink at all and one drink of "Mike's hard lemonaide" gets me dizzy. So one drink to me and one drink to someone else is different.

I wasn't being open minded about the issue, and I appologize...

[ClearSightTactical]

Originally Posted by netentity

It should be in your drivers handbook published by your DMV that it's all the same. All of them put about .02 BAC in your system. Most people metabolize .02 BAC per hour. I know it's in the CA and NV CDL handbooks. I don't recall if it's in the non-commercial drivers handbook. Last time I took a basic test was when I transferred my license to Nevada back in 1992.
There are two States where that won't happen; Florida and Nevada. Florida will still issue if you have one misdemeanor DUI on your record within three years prior to applying to your CWFL. Florida has been shall issue for over 20 years with presently over 600K licensees as of their last report on 8/31/2009 with roughly 10% being out of State. They must be doing something right by making mulitple DUIs a prohibiting condition where most States it's any DUI within three to five years prior to applying. That however will never happen. If there was data there to substantiate this we would have a much lower limit than .08 BAC which is the nationwide standard for non-commercial DUI.

The reason you have a high incidence of DUI in NM is because of the high native American population. Domestic violence, drug and alcohol abuse is not uncommon in States with a native American nations within their borders. Before some plays a race card against me, I am at least an eighth if not a quarter native American myself on my mother's side; enough to get a BIA card and admission to a tribe if I research it.

Nevada has about 800K more residents in the State than New Mexico. We have legalized prostitution (in rural counties), gambling, easily obtainable alcohol, some Indian Nations, legalized gambling State wide (except for Boulder City which outlawed it during the construction of Hoover Dam), pro-gun, no NFA prohibitions yet we have a smaller incidence of DUI than New Mexico. I have told people many times, if you have any kind of addiction you will find it here in Nevada. If you're not careful this State, it will chew you up, spit out one half and pass the other half through its lower GI tract especially in the Las Vegas metro area.

Given your reasoning we should have a higher incidence of DUI, but according to the data I have found, we have less than 75% of the total incident of DUI State wide over NM and we are a more populous State. Would you care to explain those demographics to me why DUI isn't as prevalent here as it is in your State yet alcohol is easier to get than water in most of Nevada?

Oh BTW, one of the counties with a high volume of legalized brothels has a high incidence of open carry. Nye County, particularly Pahrump with a legalized brothel within city limits has a majority of the citizens open carry in city hall. City hall tried to outlaw it, well when the meeting was full of Pahrump residents open carrying they thought twice about it.

Sir, I do agree that the nationality in NM plays a role in our statistics. Unfortunately in Albuquerque, and every city throughout NM you can find people sitting outside walgreens with a gallon of offbrand listerine just to get a buzz. At one time people were drinking "aqua net" which is hair spray.

I do agree that an outright "ban" of alcohol would never work. IE: One drink of alcohol=DUI. It is just frustrating to turn on the news and at least weekly (many times daily) a drunk driver crashes into a business, a drunk driver kills 5 teens, a drunk driver leads police on a chase through a school zone, etc.

[JJFlash]

Originally Posted by ClearSightTactical

Good point. I have no place to tell another person that when they're drinking they've lost their 2nd amendment. I do think that it is counter-productive to gun owner image, and very irresponsible. However, that statement from me about "one drink=no gun" may seem just as bad as the AWB to some of you. I don't drink at all and one drink of "Mike's hard lemonaide" gets me dizzy. So one drink to me and one drink to someone else is different.

I wasn't being open minded about the issue, and I appologize...

No need to apologize. You're entitled to your opinion.

A recent forum discussed carrying in a bar. I stated that I have mixed feelings about this but that I could carry in a bar w/o problems and so I have to extend that right to others. But I didn't say anything about drinking. I vary rarely drink and would NEVER do so while carrying. Even if I'm in a bar (very rare), and NOT carrying (we can't in ND), I'm drinking coke and coffee; I might go just to socialize for a bit.

OK, my opinion, and I'm not gonna apologize for it: GUNS and DRINKING don't mix. Period. Too many folks start to lose their inhibitions after one or two drinks (well under the DUI limits). I've seen it; you've seen it.

Can cops drink on the job? Even one beer with lunch?

And you have to consider the legal ramifications if you got into some shit after having been "socially" drinking. You drill somebody, you don't think the drinking factor is gonna play a part?

I just think it's a bad combo all around.

So, while I think we should be able to carry ANYWHERE we want (bars, city hall, school, etc.), I draw the line at carrying and partaking of ANYTHING which might affect your judgement, however slightly.

My .02 cents

[doming83]

I respect your opinion jjflash, but remember thiers alot of people that do drink responsibly, and it only take one idiot to ruin it for everyone. All the media reports is the people doing the bad, not the people that are respponsible. I think thats why most people think we cant handle alcohol, and we always drive drunk. The same can be said about how people who dont own guns look at us who do. They probally think all r guns are stolen and given to criminals, or that we all make straw purchases with the intent to sell to mexican drug lords.

[Ektarr]

I ride a motorcycle, and I have a friend whose motto is, "2-wheels, 2 beers; 4-wheels, 4 beers."

MY motto is, "Wheels? No beer!"

I apply this same philosophy to carrying. Coming from New Jersey, I can't carry on the street, but I CAN, and do, carry at home. I use this as an opportunity to practice my skills - becoming comfortable with a sidearm, for example. I will frequently have a light drink when I get home from work, but I never, Never, NEVER strap on a holster when I do.

For me, it's a no-brainer. You wanna drink, or you wanna carry? You can't do both responsibly.

[netentity]

Originally Posted by JJFlash

No need to apologize. You're entitled to your opinion.

A recent forum discussed carrying in a bar. I stated that I have mixed feelings about this but that I could carry in a bar w/o problems and so I have to extend that right to others. But I didn't say anything about drinking. I vary rarely drink and would NEVER do so while carrying. Even if I'm in a bar (very rare), and NOT carrying (we can't in ND), I'm drinking coke and coffee; I might go just to socialize for a bit.

OK, my opinion, and I'm not gonna apologize for it: GUNS and DRINKING don't mix. Period. Too many folks start to lose their inhibitions after one or two drinks (well under the DUI limits). I've seen it; you've seen it.

That's the issue. In States which have a similar standard to DUI for unlawful possession of a firearm we don't have an issue. In Nevada we can legally carry in casinos, bars, adult establishments, etc. I get a laugh when I travel to a State that has casinos as a prohibited area, shake my head and think (sometimes out loud), "I'm from Vegas, you call that a casino?" If I put a few bucks in a slot machine I'm not going to take matters into my own hands if I lose what I put in yet States that prohibit carrying in casinos or gaming establishments have this mentality. It's the same government mentality as prohibition and we all know how well that worked out.

Can cops drink on the job? Even one beer with lunch?

There's a difference between carrying while on the job and as a licensed or permitted individual. In fact, most employers have a policy against drinking at all while on the job including during duty free lunches or breaks regardless if you're in the public safety profession or not. It's part of your terms of employment. Even bartenders are not allowed to drink on duty and yes that includes here in Vegas.

And you have to consider the legal ramifications if you got into some [stuff] after having been "socially" drinking. You drill somebody, you don't think the drinking factor is gonna play a part?

Drinking will also play a factor if you're involved in a motor vehicle accident yet the national standard is .08 BAC. Also keep in mind that someone who is going to be irresponsible while carrying and drinking is also going to be irresponsible and drink and drive.

So, while I think we should be able to carry ANYWHERE we want (bars, city hall, school, etc.), I draw the line at carrying and partaking of ANYTHING which might affect your judgement, however slightly.

The judgment of some people may not be affected. Alcohol affects people in varying ways. As a prior poster mentioned in NM; the issue with public intoxication and DUI deals with his State's social demographics. As I have said before, the only well documented and publicized issue I know of since I've been here of someone carrying under the influence is the drunk supervisory FBI agent which is in this article which happened six years ago at the Barbary Coast casino on the Vegas Strip.