Intoxicated while Carrying

[surfcc]

Originally Posted by statjunk

What is the general penalty for this infraction?

I know it varies by state but what in general is the penalty.

Any know specifically for Michigan?

Thanks

Tom

Lifetime revocation of permit. I wouldn't even consider it.

[BamaBoy]

Yesterday I attended a CCW seminar held by some Alabama lawyers who specialize in self-defense and CCW cases. Among the first subjects they broached concerned the restrictions the sheriff places on the permit. So I asked about the one that prohibits carry in "any place that serves alcohol," especially since it turns out that many sheriffs of other counties do not put any such restriction on their permits.

My county (Blount) is dry, so the point is moot here, but I asked whether the restriction on my permit applies in other counties, and whether it is possible for me and my cousin to be sitting in a restaurant in Jefferson County, each with a pistol and a CCW permit, with him legal and me illegal.

The answer was that there is no case law on that point, but they have never heard of anyone being prosecuted for something like that. One lawyer, who admonished us all to exercise extreme care about everything involving CCW, said that he carries in restaurants that serve liquor even though his permit technically prohibits it. He said that if you're not drinking and not causing trouble, nobody's going to bother you.

The lawyers also said that state law might well override the sheriff's stipulations, but also that the political climate in Alabama is quite pro-gun, so sheriffs aren't interested in catching people in technical violations anyway. They're looking for intent to commit a crime. The lawyers added that although Alabama is technically a "may issue" state, the sheriffs have no problem with law-abiding citizens carrying weapons, and if a sheriff ever did turn down a qualified applicant, the state legislature would soon meet and make Alabama a "shall issue" state.

They said that the sheriff's alcohol stipulation might not even hold up legally if you carried in a bar that didn't serve food, but again there is no case law, and you don't want to be the one to test it for thousands of dollars. Similarly, they cautioned that—even though the question is not 100% settled—you're better off not drinking anything at all when you're carrying. If you should happen to be involved in an incident, the fact that you had been drinking will—fair or not—always work against you. It's asking for trouble.

Same with stores that put up signs saying, "No firearms." The lawyers said that the store has a right to put up a sign, but they doubted that you could be convicted of anything, or would even be arrested, merely for carrying. But again, why ask for trouble?

Note: Alabama law is ambiguous in these areas. Some states take specific care in defining which type of liquor-serving establishments are off limits to carry, and also exactly what type of sign a store has to post in order to bar guns legally. The lawyers emphasized several times that "intent" is the key.

PS. Of course, there are states in which the political climate is hostile to firearms, and the authorities are looking for any possible way to catch someone in a technical violation, whether the person has any nefarious intent or not. One lawyer said that when for some reason some Alabama state police and the District Attorney had to travel to Massachusetts, the authorities in Massachusetts turned down the D.A.'s request to bring his gun with him, even though he had a carry permit and, in a way, "outranked" the officers accompanying him. So I'm glad I live in Alabama and not the People's Republic of Massachusetts.

[JJFlash]

The basic gist that I'm getting from your post, BamaBoy, is that we REALLY need to be concerned about the legal aspects of carrying. It's understandable that there seems to be little case law associated with carry - we're law-abiding citizens and don't tend to end up on the "radar"! Funny that this should work against us in a criminal or civil suit...

[netentity]

Originally Posted by BamaBoy

Yesterday I attended a CCW seminar held by some Alabama lawyers who specialize in self-defense and CCW cases.

...

My understanding of AL law is the issuing sheriff has the discretionary power to revoke your permit if you violate one of the restrictions they have placed on it. However you need to be made. If you're being responsible chances are you will not be made.

It's much like NY(C) in that regard. You can legally CCW in NY(C) if you have a restricted permit since it's an administrative restriction, however expect to get your firearm(s) impounded and the permit revoked by the issuing judge if you're caught.

[netentity]

Originally Posted by JJFlash

The basic gist that I'm getting from your post, BamaBoy, is that we REALLY need to be concerned about the legal aspects of carrying. It's understandable that there seems to be little case law associated with carry - we're law-abiding citizens and don't tend to end up on the "radar"! Funny that this should work against us in a criminal or civil suit...

Since the "shall issue" movement started in the mid 90's, we have little case law to go on. You also deal with States that have statutory ambiguities on prohibited areas. Legislatures tend to not fix things unless they get enough constituent pressure to do so. The 2011 Nevada legislative session is going to be interesting since the soon to former Assembly Judiciary Chair Bernie Anderson will be put out to pasture by Nevada State Constitution mandated term limits. He has been an obstacle to much pro-gun legislation and has assisted in some anti-gun legislation in my current State of residency.