Winchester ammo.

[S&WM&P40]

What is ++P++? yeah the Rem golden saber are vary good from what i have been told. Yeah the black talon ( or the cop killer as the press calls it) said to have teflon coating on it to defeat body armor. LOL the funny thing is it has no such thing. What i don't get is the Fed round is a LEO only round ( LEO because of company rules not by law). So Dirt only sells to them to LEO but the SXT round is LEO only to but they sell to any one lol. I think i am going to go with Rem Golden but i cant find a site that sells them in 50 or 100 rounds. Only box's of 20. Walmart does not carry them lol.

[netentity]

Originally Posted by S&WM&P40

What is ++P++? yeah the Rem golden saber are vary good from what i have been told. Yeah the black talon ( or the cop killer as the press calls it) said to have teflon coating on it to defeat body armor. LOL the funny thing is it has no such thing. What i don't get is the Fed round is a LEO only round ( LEO because of company rules not by law). So Dirt only sells to them to LEO but the SXT round is LEO only to but they sell to any one lol. I think i am going to go with Rem Golden but i cant find a site that sells them in 50 or 100 rounds. Only box's of 20. Walmart does not carry them lol.

+P+ ammunition is something that is loaded higher than the standard SAAMI specs to get better performance. Only use it if your firearm is rated for it or sparingly. You can wear out some firearms more quickly with the use of +P or +P+ ammunition. +P+ is only for 9mm, all other rounds are just loaded to +P. You'd probably have to go through an Internet vendor to get your desired ammunition by the case. Typically range/target ammo is available in boxes of 50 or 100 or a 250 round value pack for centerfire handgun. Factory centerfire personal protection ammunition can be available in boxes of 20, 25 or 50 depending on the round. You can buy a case consisting of 20 to 50 of the 20 or 25 round boxes. Some vendors will give you a discount for buying a lot of four or five boxes of 20 or 25. Again, whether a round is available in boxes of 20, 25 or 50 is dependant upon the manufacturer.

While I have some Federal and Winchester 9mm in +P+, I use it sparingly. There's also the rationale that you should practice with something comparable to your personal protection ammo. If you've never put +P(+) through your firearm, I wouldn't carry it. There's also the economic and availability aspect of using standard pressure personal protection rounds. I haven't had any issues carrying standard pressure 9mm. You're also dealing with the issue of the lifespan of your firearm being shortened by putting +P(+) through it.

I buy all of my personal protection ammunition online and keep a fairly large stock of it in my closet.

While we're on the subject of +P, here's a discussion I get into with my students and people who ask my advice on what round to choose especially when we get into revolvers.

I refuse to own a .38 special only revolver; I typically load my .357 magnums with .38 special +P. It's not going to hurt the revolver as it's designed for full power .357 magnum rounds. A former girlfriend of mine carries an older Charter Arms .38 special; it is not rated for +P so I told her to carry standard pressure .38 special rounds to get the maximum life out of the revolver. Charter Arms has stated that sparse use of +P ammunition should not affect the revolver, but they do not recommend it be given a steady diet of +P ammunition. Same with my exwife; I recommend to her a .357 magnum, but load it with .38 special +P. You'll get maximum life out of the firearm and have a pretty effective personal protection round.

Several ammo makers have .38 special standard pressure personal protection loads available. My bias being towards Winchester Silvertips because of the maturity of the round. Because the ammo industry is leaning towards .38 special +P over standard pressure. If you're in a jurisdiction where civil liability is an issue, IMO there are little civil liability issues IMO associated with choosing +P over standard pressure in any caliber providing you use factory ammunition. In fact, factory standard pressure .38 special personal protection loads are getting more difficult to find with better engineering and design used in modern firearms. We haven't seen the tough air or featherweight firearms made out of scandium or titanium until recently. I believe all current production .38 special revolvers are +P rated if I am not mistaken.

[S&WM&P40]

Is this good ammo to buy? 67889 - 9mm Luger, UMC Handgun Cartridge, 115-Grain JHP Bullet, 1155 fps, 50 Rounds Per Box, 10 Boxes per Case look at the price.

[netentity]

Originally Posted by S&WM&P40

Is this good ammo to buy? 67889 - 9mm Luger, UMC Handgun Cartridge, 115-Grain JHP Bullet, 1155 fps, 50 Rounds Per Box, 10 Boxes per Case look at the price.

Yes, however they are out of stock on it now. UMC is the Remington equivalent of Winchester white box.

[S&WM&P40]

lol Again.. I find some ammo that would not kill the bank account and it's made for target shooting not CC lol just my luck..

[netentity]

Originally Posted by S&WM&P40

lol Again.. I find some ammo that would not kill the bank account and it's made for target shooting not CC lol just my luck..

JHPs are not meant for target shooting. Winchester whitebox (USA) and UMC is the lesser expensive ammo. What determines the application of a given round is the bullet type. If it's a JHP then it's for personal protection. Both Winchester whitebox (USA) and UMC make JHP. So does Federal under the American Eagle brand. American Eagle doesn't make a JHP round except in .44 magnum. You have to go to the more premium Federal cartridges for that.

[KimberRB]

Wallyworld here ask is it to be used in a handgun or longgun, copy DL # and infomation, it may just be in this area but I will not give this info up.

[S&WM&P40]

WOW, what state are you in??? I would call the main walmart and report it. unless this is some law in your state that information must be taken. That does not sound like Company rules as they do not do it at my super center here. Ok great so you are saying i would be safe using UMC or the white box winchester for CC? would you use it? LOL i called the gun store here and they only sell the Golden saber in 25 round box's so i would need to buy 4 of them at about 100 dollars.

[LongRider]

Ammunition To Go carries Federal HST, Remmington Golden Sabers Rangers (aka Talons) and most other premium grade ammo. At reasonable prices and has excellent service. The keep the so called LEO Only ammo in stock unlike most every other vendors. They also have good prices on practice ammo
IMO Federal HST is far superior to other ammo. In every test I have done or seen it out perform everything it is tested against. It has consistent penetration and expansion no matter what it is shot into or through. Rangers so called Talon have very inconsistent expansion and penetration, they often do not have the talons they are supposed to be known for and often separate

[netentity]

Originally Posted by S&WM&P40

WOW, what state are you in??? I would call the main walmart and report it. unless this is some law in your state that information must be taken. That does not sound like Company rules as they do not do it at my super center here.

In some States, yes, the buyer information has to be recorded. It is not in Nevada.

Ok great so you are saying i would be safe using UMC or the white box winchester for CC? would you use it? LOL i called the gun store here and they only sell the Golden saber in 25 round box's so i would need to buy 4 of them at about 100 dollars.

As long as it's a JHP which is designed for personal protection yes. If you want to go with the Winchester WB (USA) or UMC JHPs, those would be good. I'm a bit more nitpicky about my personal protection ammunition choices and prefer the more premium offerings. Would I use it if I had budgetary concerns or had to buy personal protection ammo in bulk, yes. You're using an economical factory JHP round from a major ammunition maker. I don't see that as a liability issue.

In your premium personal protection rounds some more engineering goes into the bullet design. What you're paying for if you USA or UMC is a generic JHP round from one of the major ammunition makers. Your FMJ rounds are for range/target, your JHP rounds are for personal protection.

The only State that outlaws JHP rounds for civilian use is NJ. If you drive through NJ, I would carry Federal EFMJ rounds. There has been a case of persons passing through NJ being tried and convicted for possession of illegal ammunition.

Comparing the UMC and USA JHPs to the premium Remington and Winchester personal protection rounds would be an interesting project for the box of truth, blocks of ballistic jello or wet phone books.