Winchester ammo.

[LongRider]

Originally Posted by S&WM&P40

ESPECIALLY when we are talking about a handgun which is an inadequate man stopper at best?? What does that mean? you saying 9mm is not a good man stopper?

No I am saying that ALL handguns are inadequate man stoppers. Regardless of some video you saw. According to Jeff Cooper Clint Smith, Massad Ayoob, Fairbain & Sykes or any handgun expert past or present you can name and personal experience ALL handguns are inadequate man stoppers. Based on a FBI study less than 20% all handgun wounds are fatal. One shot fatalities are far lower by any definition that is inadequate.
Sure, .22 head shots are fatal 100% of the time which is why the mob used them for executions. All you have to do is get 100% of your victims to kneel down while you shoot them in the head, until they are dead. Or just as likely making head shots 100% of the time with a 9mm through the smoke and stench of crap & blood when bullets are flying, people are screaming crying and dying. If anyone can do that please contact me and I will gladly pay whatever the price is for your training course. Fact is even if you do make the head shot it is no guarantee that it will be fatal I know of a guy that was shot point blank with a .357 magnum that literally blew half of his brain off. The gist of his three foot thick neurological report says that his autonomic functions had to be rerouted to the remaining portion of his brain (less than half of its original mass) as quickly as the bullet went though his skull in order for him to live which he did. He is capable of speech and mobility. You can see half of his skull is missing they did not put a plate or anything in. Human beings can be amazingly resilient and handguns are inadequate man stoppers

[Scarecrow]

Originally Posted by S&WM&P40

I found this and like it what do you think? 50rds - 9mm Federal LE Tactical HST 124gr. HP Ammo for 19.95.

based on the test firing in the first link of my last post. the 147 gr federal HST performed better. not sure if you would have the same results shooting from your pistol or not. the ammo is cheap enough. maybe buy a box of both and do your own testing. sounds like a lot of fun to me!

[S&WM&P40]

Originally Posted by LongRider

No I am saying that ALL handguns are inadequate man stoppers. Regardless of some video you saw. According to Jeff Cooper Clint Smith, Massad Ayoob, Fairbain & Sykes or any handgun expert past or present you can name and personal experience ALL handguns are inadequate man stoppers. Based on a FBI study less than 20% all handgun wounds are fatal. One shot fatalities are far lower by any definition that is inadequate.
Sure, .22 head shots are fatal 100% of the time which is why the mob used them for executions. All you have to do is get 100% of your victims to kneel down while you shoot them in the head, until they are dead. Or just as likely making head shots 100% of the time with a 9mm through the smoke and stench of crap & blood when bullets are flying, people are screaming crying and dying. If anyone can do that please contact me and I will gladly pay whatever the price is for your training course. Fact is even if you do make the head shot it is no guarantee that it will be fatal I know of a guy that was shot point blank with a .357 magnum that literally blew half of his brain off. The gist of his three foot thick neurological report says that his autonomic functions had to be rerouted to the remaining portion of his brain (less than half of its original mass) as quickly as the bullet went though his skull in order for him to live which he did. He is capable of speech and mobility. You can see half of his skull is missing they did not put a plate or anything in. Human beings can be amazingly resilient and handguns are inadequate man stoppers

I was not in any way trying to make it seem like me or any one for that matter could be 100% dead on all the time. I Was just saying that The best the US military has, the Seals,delta,berets and so on are trained to cut down on how many times they miss. I am not saying they are 100% on all the time every one misses. As for killing some one it may not kill them but it will take them out of the fight and thats all that really matters to me. When they are no longer a threat to me i can no longer use a gun on them at that point i would tie them up or use my ASP cuffs if it was inside my home. I was getting at the point that i am sick of hearing the 9mm be called a bad round or a girl round. You could get hit with a 22 and die as you said. NOW BACK ON TOPIC i will look into the ammo more as i will be the first to say i know nothing about ammo. I was told the 124 has a higher FPS and the 147 has a slower FPS is this true?

[LongRider]

Originally Posted by S&WM&P40

NOW BACK ON TOPIC i will look into the ammo more as i will be the first to say i know nothing about ammo. I was told the 124 has a higher FPS and the 147 has a slower FPS is this true?

Researching the links I posted for you on my original post will provide you with the info you asked for
BTW the reason the military weapons are .223 long guns is because handguns are ineffective man stoppers Handguns are their weapon of last resort. Which I believe are loaded with ball ammo due to NATO restriction. I will never carry ball ammo in a SD weapon

[tattedupboy]

Originally Posted by HK4U

Just tell them you are going to shoot it. What else do they think you would do with it? Eat it?

Hehehehehe! That's a good one!

[burchesss]

Here in VA the only questions I am asked at walmart, is rifle or pistol and they check Id for age but dont record any thing. it seems strange that they take your word that it is for a long gun. more gun laws at work for us all!