Walther PPK/S .380 Feedback Requested.

View Poll Results: Is a semi-auto with a top 8 rd capacity obsolete?

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  • Depends on the skills of the shooter.

    18 81.82%
  • Depends on the accuracy/build of the pistol.

    1 4.55%
  • More lethal ammo makes up for less ball/FMJ.

    3 13.64%
  • Walther is a fossil no matter what U do.

    1 4.55%
  • Plenty of back-up mags compensate.

    2 9.09%
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Walther PPK/S .380 Feedback Requested.

This is a discussion on Walther PPK/S .380 Feedback Requested. within the Handgun Discussion forums, part of the Handguns category; I recently came into possession of a Walther PPK/S1 .380 ACP cal. No ! It wasn't me trying to emulate ...

  1. #1
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    Smile Walther PPK/S .380 Feedback Requested.

    I recently came into possession of a Walther PPK/S1 .380 ACP cal.
    No! It wasn't me trying to emulate any 007 flick! There were 23 weapons laid out for grabs in an estate sale, many large revolvers, a few shotguns, rifles, hi-powered .177 & .22 pellet guns (CO2), an authentic 1940 Luger, minus the legalizing import papers :-(, (War trophy) many large mid and small semi-autos, so I asked my passed-on friend's eldest son which one his dad always took with him as his CCW of choice, and up came a Walther PPK/S1, it was just (IMHO) the best made larger cal than my Springfield XD-9mm CCW weapon of that beat out the others for my needs, just small enough for complete concealed carry year-round but nowhere a large as my Beretta 96 FS .40cal Centurion that is just too big for year round legal CCW carry, out of sight in WA.
    So let me ***** about it 1st, with a $6 difference in a Walther ę 7-round magazines which seems to be as good, maybe even better/newer & less costly (D-spring and other compounds added to the mag during the metal-mixing phase, like carbon heat absorbing chemicals), which the Walther brand mags lacks, but the MecGar ę brand have, so I bought 5 of them online, legal & reputable @ $21.47 ea a day after buying the Walther as the best CCW in the best condition for $350 (cheaper than most I found new) that came with an 'Uncle Mikes' clip-on holster and 5 full boxes of American Eagle by Federal 95g FMJ .380 ACP, 50 rounds per box new ammo. That's about how many it will take to get me semi-proficient on my slightly used but very well maintained new pistol. Out of the 8 rounds tops it can hold that is still 3 less than I'd like that mag/weapon to carry. Guess James Bond didn't ever miss his targets, and just 4 the hell of it watch any scene where he takes out 20 BG's with no reloads. Q must have tweaked that Walther! WaltherPistols.com: MecGar Walther Mag PPK/S FR 380ACP 7rd - MecGar Walther Item 6254 @ $26.73 ea is a Walther made mag, 2 came with the weapon, so I ordered 5 more of these MecGar 380ACP (Item # 5775) with a bottom finger rest, blued, 7 round capacity duplicates, made by MecGar which seemed to be a better way to go to up the extra mags I want loaded in reserve and cut paying Walther brand-name prices. OK it holds 8 if I stick 1 in the spout which has no upper receiver lock-back lever (ala M1911 or Beretta), so the only way to safely load 8 is load a 7 round mag, chamber 1 round then drop the mag and add 1 more round to the clip, insert it back into the weapon and now I have 8 total. It does have a right-sided safety lever with up shows a red dot, meaning its ready to fire, but it's not a left handed friendly weapon. It also has a half-cock hammer safety I have yet to get comfortable with. I prefer the no extra external safeties of the XD-9 which is a draw, point & shoot small and lighter 9mm weapon. But with 10+1 117g CORęBON JHP's loaded & 6 ten-round mags in reserve or just for saving time loading 1 or 2 mags at a range in reserve loaded makes each 117g CORęBON JHP shot a close range BG stopper.
    It's German, so spare parts come from Germany (?) or does Walther arms have a U.S. factory operation? This model says on the right: 'Smith & Wesson, Houlton, ME USA' (importers or producers?) on the left side it says: 'Under license of Carl Walther, Waffenfabrik, Ulm, DO, Modell PPK/S Cal 9mm, kurtz/380APC.
    Why would ANY secret agent who whacks BG's by the dozen need a weapon that doesn't carry more rounds in it's mags? Or am I missing something? The (online) pre-ban 10-rd $48-$60 mags are IMHO ugly protrusions and a jamb or F2F weak spring no tension left SNAFU waiting to happen. So I'll stay with my 7 + 1 shooter and the 7 rounds of a 9mm/.380 ACP it seems to like both mags labeled as such, BUT I sure would like that question answered B 4 I put it to the test in even our best indoor pistol range in town: Welcome to Sharp Shooting Indoor Range and Gun Shop
    It feels right in my hand with excellent balance. With some practice it will add to my collection a weapon I would never have bought new, that would have been a Glock but as the post-WW II build of the infamous Luger, which I read was the 'father' of the Walthers I would value what USA Carry Walther PPK/S owners have to say about it on this site, verses me finding out for myself at a range where I'd like to know it's strengths and weakness before I think it's a 007 cool 'toy' and blow my frigging foot off trying to clear a MF or cook off! Double-Oh-Stupid!
    Have at it folks I value your input as for me I haven't even had the chance to shoot a single round thru it, yet, but I hear the super cool indoor pistol range at calling me.
    And how comes with the Walther magazine stamped '9mm', it holds 7 .380 ACP's holds 7 too, and both lock/loads and chambers a round just like a true 9mm shouldn't into a .380 or even be able to do? Just the same as the Walther stamped .380 APC mag does, but a true 9mm is clearly a smaller round. Maybe that's why Mr. Bond got the damn thing. I took some pictures of it I'll upload with this post.
    My regards,

    Canis-Lupus
    Attached Images Attached Images      
    Last edited by Canis-Lupus; 06-22-2008 at 03:23 AM.

  2. #2
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    Lucky You!! As you know and have stated, there are Pros and Cons of the 380..personally, I see nothing wrong with them, I carry one also. Would LOVE to have a PPK but I make do with my little Bersa and Kel-Tec. I HIGHLY suspect that you will be happy with this little ass kicker..CONGRATS!
    DrLewall
    "Doc"
    Drakes Creeks, AR
    www.kiltsrock.com
    "A gun unloaded and cocked aint good for nuttin!"--Rooster Cogburn

  3. #3
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    I think there's nothing wrong with a .380. I carry a bulgarian Makarov during the hot months, which is very similar in size and power to the Walther PP. As they say, a .22 on your hip is better than a .45 at home.

    If you're concerned about penetration with JHP in .380, you can always use FMJ. Good luck with your new find.

    -ishi
    Truth is mighty and will prevail. There is nothing the matter with this, except that it ain't so.

    -Mark Twain

  4. #4
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    I have a German Walther ppk/s. I posted some stuff on this gun a few days ago at another site in response to soemone finding one of these at an estate sale, I'll repost here for infomation's sake.

    All Walther PPK/S were produced in one of 2 places, France or the US.

    In 1968 the US law changed which required Walther to marry the larger PP frame with the shorter PPK slide and barrel, thus the PPK/S was born.

    Almost all US guns were either imported by Interarms (will say made in W Germany) but manufactured in France by Manhurin before being sent to Ulm, Germany for proof testing, or when in 1986 the France plant lost it's license to make the PP series and the manufacture was changed to the Interarms contracted plant in the USA (mfg in USA), under Walther supervision. Lastly when Interarms stopped manufacturing (owner died, went out of business), S&W began production in America (mfg. USA) again under Walther supervision. Some parts have always been made for these guns in Ulm, Germany, but final assembly and proofing determines country of manufacture, hence why the French guns will show a German manufacture, as that is where they were proofed and the US guns will show a USA manufacture..

    The side of your gun slide should say where it was manufactured, I'm guessing W. Germany, which means at the French factory. I found this info on the PPK/S

    said by another poster: "I have owned both Manurhin and Walther produced PPK/S's and the Manurhin guns struck me as being every bit the equal of the German built guns."

    That's because they're AREN'T any "German made" PP series pistols, and haven't been any since 1945.

    When WWII ended, the Walther plant was completely bombed out. What was left ended up in Russian hands.
    The Walther family escaped to the West, bringing with them the critical production plans for the Walther firearms.

    When the new West German government wanted to adopt the P-38 pistol, Walther had the plans but no production plant.
    Rumor has it, that the French had removed the P-38 production tooling, jigs, and dies from the Mauser plant before finally destroying it.

    Walther contracted production of the P-38 and later the PP series guns with the French Manurhin company.

    After Walther built a new plant in Ulm, all P-38 production was moved back to Germany, but Walther decided to keep having Manurhin produce the PP series pistols in France under contract.

    The guns were manufactured in France, shipped a few miles over the border to Ulm, where they were blued, proof-fired, stamped "Made in Germany", and sold as German-made Walther pistols.

    To be fair, in Europe the country where the final proof is conducted is considered the country of manufacture.

    So, until Walther contracted with InterArms to have the PPK and PPK/s pistols produced in the US, ALL PP series pistols were actually made in France by Manurhin.

    Some of you may remember the Walther/Manurhin "Advertising War" of the mid 1980's.
    The license with Manurhin had expired after Walther had the guns produced here, and the Manurhin company decided to market their "own" PPK/s pistols.

    Walther's ads said that ONLY Walther-marked guns were "genuine". Manuhrin's ads said that since they had actually made ALL the guns since 1945, THEY were the "genuine" gun.

    Somehow Walther and Manurhin resolved the dispute after about a year, and no more Manurhin-marked guns were imported.

    A side-by-side comparison of contemporary Walther and Manurhin PPK/s pistols revealed that the guns were in fact produced on the same production machines.
    Machine marks were exactly the same on both guns, the plastic box was from the same mold, and the instruction manual for the Manurhin was exactly the same as the Walther manual, except the pictures had the Walther name air-brushed out, and replaced with Manurhin marks.

    All through the 50's, 60's and early 70's when the gun magazines had their annual "round-up" articles on pocket autos, they always described the Walther PP series guns as "Typically fine Teutonic quality" and "High quality German craftsmanship".

    After the guns started to be produced here in America, they blandly informed us that they'd always known the guns were produced in France.

    So, arguments over which is the better gun, a German PP series or a French Manuring PP series gun is a moot point.
    They were produced on the same equipment, in the same French plant, by the same French workers.

    In short, There AIN'T no "German" PP series guns, and haven't been any since Adolph bit the Big One."


    http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/i...p/t-80222.html
    As far as the gun goes for CCW, I haven't really used it and I may not due to size. I think I'm different than most who want to have the biggest baddest thing available when that bad guy confronts them. I spent nearly 50 years in some of the worst Los Angeles gettos/slums/projects and never carried except for one week in 1992 (riots), so my main focus now that I can is comfort and concealability without making adjustments to my lifestyle.

    I do not like any type of waist band carry, preferring to carry in my pocket only, so I just ordered a Seecamp LWS32. Until it gets delivered in about 90 days I'll be using my Beretta 21A in .22LR! If the .32 cal Seecamp is fine for me when it gets here, the .380 would certainly work as well, except for the size. The argument against it that many say you can get a nice 9mm or better for the same size these days. I don't know because I don't own any large autos, but that might make sense.

  5. #5
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    Thumbs up What a history lesson!

    Thanks Stiofan,
    Man that gun has been around, dated.. HELL yes, it fits the time-line when USAF (Ret) George D. (RIP) was a 25 y/o USAF master sergeant finishing up business in what was left of the '1,000 year Reich!' It remains a mystery how he got it or even where, but I do thank you for the impressive lineage work you pulled up on it. A weapon that surfaced just in time for a very Cold War (Korea/Nam/Balkans). The serial # is 7325BAB, PPK/S-1. No year date I can find. I have to go find a link to an Adobe PDF 'Users Manual' or order one online so I know how to take it apart, find out what makes it work and get very familiar with putting it back together after a good clean & lube. Then practice that for however long it takes which I hope isn't a 2-hour job even for an expert with one, which I a far from. Unlike most guns I have used or owned, the break-down/field-stripping is a pretty common sense deal, not with this, a few tiny screws holding mysterious parts underneath, and no visible/manual anything (indents, buttons or break-down points) that would make taking this apart a quick job, about as complicated as an M60 which at least had levers and indents and bars to push or pull to give me somewhere to start with. I wont take any weapon to a range until I now how I can break-it down and put it back together or IMHO I shouldn't even go near the range-fire part I am dying to do, but if it takes a gun-smith to do what I can't and a fancy tool-box of ex Nazi/German, French or USA made gizmos then I will look very foolish the 1st time it locks up and I have options a. take a loaded weapon home with a potential discharge in route or b. find the the right manual that makes it a job I can do myself in under 2 days, would be nice :-(
    Thanks again for a very thourouh work-up on a weapon I am learning more about each day. When I finally get the savvy to use it well plus the extra mags I will try to post a JPG of what it looks like in action.
    Regards,

    Canis-Lupus

  6. #6
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    The Walther and the Bursa T380 sure look a lot alike. I am sure that there is no comparison in so far as overall quality is concerned, however, how do they compare size and weight wise?

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    My friend in life had two Bursa T380's I asked him why he carried or even owned the cheaper clone of the Walther PPK/S. His cryptic reply was "If I have to do anything with a gun that could come back to put me in jail, which weapon do you think I would chuck into the deepest lake in WA and not lose much?" 30 years of being a military trained killer from WW II to numerous tours in 'Nam had taught him when it is wise to toss a cheaper/less finely crafted pistol & walk away a free man. His 2 (cheap brown plastic cracked grips and hair-line cracks in the aluminium housing) both looked like crap! Guess if it's being sent up for life for premedititated or 5 years on a self-protection rap gone very wrong G. (RIP) knew it was better to sink a Bursa tied to a BF rock than pay the piper. Even as an old guy this was a fella with the 1,000 yard stare. You can tell when a pro-soldier gone special-ops has sent many of his enemies to holes in the ground and still lives with it, that was my buddy! His son sold each Bursa to some young/dumb buyers for $100 ea and I don't think I should say any more or I may upset good Bursa users if they do make good small semi-autos. I'd be scared to even try shoot either of the Bursas he once owned! Blow my frigging hand off!
    Regards,

    C-L
    Last edited by Canis-Lupus; 06-24-2008 at 12:23 PM.

  8. #8
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    The Bersas, at least the modern ones, generally have very good quality marks from most users on the various gun boards. I don't own one or have ever fired one, so have no first hand knowledge.

  9. #9
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    I have an Interarms PPK/s .380 and I love it. I bought it from a man who bought it new in the '70s (I think) and never really used it. It was in his gun safe all those years and was perfect as new when I got it. I've had it a few years now and shoot it weekly at the range.

    There are plenty of loads available that will do the job. It has never failed to fire, chamber, or eject a round. I think it's saftey and multi strike capability are execelent features. It's a little heavy and a little more bulky then a Kel-Tec but it is a real gun after all.

    I'm saving for a Walther PPS .40 now but not sure it will replace my PPK as a daily carry.

    I'm also looking to get a Walther SSP M4 for competition Bullseye.

    TAG

  10. #10
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    Wink Mags: Walther vs. MecGar.

    Howdy tag1737
    As I wrote I too came into a Walther PPK/S-1 and it is a very nice small CCW weapon, but it only came with 2 Walther ę 7-round clips, originals I suspect. So I did a web search for 5 more, at this web-site I found what I was looking for from a company called TGSCOM, INC. Very nice web-site with guns and accessories galore.
    http://www.thegunstore.com .
    Specifically:
    TheGunSource: MecGar Walther Mag PPK/S FR 380ACP 7rd - MecGar Walther
    The 7-round Walther clips are $28 and up a pop for the brand name replicas of what I had, wasn't interested in higher capacity magazines sticking out of the grip end, which they had 10-rd jobbies @ almost $50 a pop! So I bought five MecGar ę mags (MecGar Walther Mag PPK/S FR 380ACP 7rd I.D. # 5775) @ 23.14 ea with a solid composite plastic triangular thumb rest. They come in chrome and black, make sure U tell them your choice or U will get chrome. nice and shiny bright! Inside each is a 'D' rated 'music-wire' spring, per them "strongest springs available". I got mine in black, much better and cheaper way to give me enough back-up mags to meet year-round concealed needs + back-up fire-power for a weapon that only fires 7+1 tops. Plus I don't spend 1/2 my time @ the range reloading only 2 mags. I haven't even gotten around to firing the pistol yet, I'm practicing break-down, maintenance and reassembly first @ home so I have total familiarity with it long before I start range fire. IMHO the MecGar magazines are better all round fit, the Walther ones are a tad loose by maybe 0.2mm all round! The MecGar fit flush and lock in place well 1st time. Their make and design (inside plus a better thumb-rest) then paying the extra $5.38 for a Walther mag just for a brand name clone didn't make sense. They arrived 1 week after I placed the phone order each wrapped in a nice packet (UPS) with magazine facts and maintenance steps/diagrams clearly outlined on the back in English with each one. I would recommend them over the Walther originals if only for a D quality spring that the Walther mags may have had, but after 20-30 years of holding 7 rounds in a clip under the tension of a full load may be loose and cause a failure to feed (F2F) problem.
    I only post this as a way for you to get better made cheaper clips than the originals, which may have worked well when Sean Connery was 40 and kicking ass, but could fail now they are drawing retirement pay & popping Viagra to get a good push on the bullet load!
    My Regards,

    Canis-Lupus
    Last edited by Canis-Lupus; 07-12-2008 at 10:45 PM.

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