I would not consider teaching anyone who is not reasonably competent in hand to hand

[ONLYPILL]

Why wouldn't I teach someone who is not reasonably competent in hand to hand fighting?

Because most street shooting deaths occur within 6ft
Combat Shooting

So there is a very good chance that you will have physical contact with an attacker.

If you don't know how to to deflect an attackers hand, and or evade and conceal,or disable that attacker, you are going to get in trouble sooner or later.

For those who disagree, They are also disagreeing with Col Applegate, and Jeff Cooper.

To let a person believe that just being able to shoot a firearm a few times is going to keep them from harms way is gross incompetence.

This will create a sense of confidence that will not stand the test in many cases.

It's also a fact that handguns fail, and that they have any real stopping power.

As far as aiming goes, I thought Applegate made it clear that you use point shooting in most fights.

Jeff Cooper added the idea of longer range marksmanship.

but Cooper's primary audience was the Military, not civilians

Unfortunately, many civilians are just conned into both the choice of weapons, and instructors, by gun store owners just out for a profit, having no real concern for the actual safety of the store patrons.

The training necessary to get a CCW in most areas is a joke.

Notice that most instructors don't even make their students prove that they can break down and clean their weapons, never mind learn the art of point shooting.

You want serious training?

Go to Gunsite, or join the Airborne, Ranger Corps, or the
USMC.

Notice the grip that Jack Ruby used when he assassinated Lee Harvey
Oswald. It's called the Chicago, or assasins grip.
Jack Ruby - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That's what you use in close quarters, unless you are poorly trained

It's deadly, and just pointed, not aimed!

How can he miss?

and it's very difficult to tkae the handgun from the shooter.

Jack Ruby was a pro at assasinations. Lots of experience

And it's only a J Frame .38

Imagine that!

Be Safe out there!

Don't become a customer for the Coroner.

[whitetiger]

bud (onlypill) you need to take a pill. you would not teach a poor old women in a run down crime ridden area to shoot cause she is not a trained fighter, she has kids and has to work two jobs to feed them and cloth them and send them to school. she hopes and prays they all grow up and not get killed or raped. and a handgun is the only thing she has to secure her house at night cause police do not drive around here they come in force when you call them and it take 25 30 mins for them to get here. The people who need to be able to know how to use a gun the most are the ones who can not afford it the most.
Have you read the news post 75 year old women shoot and kills 25 year old in housebreakin. or all the other shooting here OH YOUR RIGHT> SHE WAS A 10.0000 degree black belt in Hopscots.
there seem to be a lot of old people shooting the crap out of your young thugs. maybe they need lessions on how not to break the law and not get dead. You could teach that! cause you got no idea on how to teach self defence. IT NOT fighting with your fist you have to train first. it's the confidance to know how and when you should use a gun. aim. sight alingment and sight picture, breath and hold and squeeze.
I was a sgt of Marines (vet)
what about the vet in a wheelcchair. the vet with no legs. how about the blind you going cut them out too.
i teach people in wheelchairs how to fence and some of my fellow coachs teach the blind.
I don't think you should teach anyone how to do anything till you grow hair back on your head cause the sun has got to you. Or are you looking to get your selfdefence class filled up. OH OK it's a ad!!
silly me your class is for dummys. tricks are for kids!! guns are for adults!
HEY DO I QUAIFIED AS A TROLL YET! Do I get my card and ccw badge! ( G I lov ya MAN!!!)

[Bighouse Doc]

This guy is a troll or mall-ninja cop/SF wannabee!

I wonder what names he has posted here under before?

-Doc

[twogunwilly]

That is just retarded. Go back to flipping patties at McDonald's. Guns are the great equalizer and have nothing to do with physical abilities.

[Brandonm2]

That may be the dumbest thing anyone has ever posted on here. Most people are not attacked by ninjas or professional hitmen from the Gambino crime family. The normal neighborhood thug is some drug crazed whackjob in a hoodie with a 75 IQ. They don't normally attack 6'2" Marines (and I am certainly not telling the big and strong NOT to carry, since the strong typically are killed in drivebys, by gangs, or some other sort of ambush negating their physical prowess). The more typical targets are the old, the small, the weak, the alone, the defenseless. As a previous poster already mentioned, the old person who bought their home in better days is a lot more likely to be living in a dangerous neighborhood by herself. That 75 year old grandmother with arthritis isn't going to win at hand to hand with some 18 year old violent thug. Her one shot is that she can get to her gun and get a well placed round off before he gets his hands on her and breaks her arms. Ditto with the hot young petite college age girl being attacked by a violent former boyfriend or a sexual predator. Granted that sort of instruction is not as much fun for the instructor as debating the finer points of close in combat to knowledgable Marines; but it is more likely to save a life too.

[sgtbill]

Well Whitetiger and I agree 100% on this one and for the record.
1. I am a former Viet Nam era U.S.Marine
2. I am a former military small arm's Instructor
3. I am a retired Det. Sergeant with over 25 years in law enforcement
4. I spent over 22 years with the SWAT team as a Sniper and as the Sgt. in charge of the sniper unit
5. I have shot in both Rifle and pistol competition most of my life
6. I was the State Champion in Police handgun NRA 1500 competition in a 2 man team several times
I suppose that this is enough even tho I am not Jeff Cooper or Col. Applegate and I don't mean to put them down in anyway but each person has to find out what they are comfortable with as far as training is concerned.
Bill

[localgirl]

Are you for real?

Look, I'll tell you what I told you in the "Hit vital points post"--should I have the time and luxury, I'll call upon the very limited martial arts training I have. But chances are, if I'm in a close quarters situation, I'm going to be scared and completely amped up on adrenalin, and I'll be lucky if I can even remember how to make a fist. I would love to have the luxury of training daily, but I have neither the time nor the resources for that. That would be why I carry a gun and practice the ancient Chinese art of Bang-pow.

[pafindr]

That would be why I carry a gun and practice the ancient Chinese art of Bang-pow.

BWHAHAHAHA!!!

Can I use that in my sig line?

[localgirl]

BWHAHAHAHA!!!

Can I use that in my sig line?

Sure. I totally stole it from someone else.

[jcarmody]

I was waiting for onlydill to post something so I could accuse him of not being an instructor at all and suggest that the forum admins make him prove it or remove the tag from under his name. He's a bozo. Can his tag be changed to "bozo"?