Had to Remove a Student Today - Opinions Sought

[milboltnut]

When the class ended he was escorted to the main gate, his gun was returned and the gate was locked behind him (he's not a member of this club).


I feel the gun should have been retained by the LEO, and student referred to some sort of counselling..sorry next time might not be so lucky..if he does end up causing a shooting accident in the future and somehow it is learned of his problem in your class, I'm sure a lawyer somehow will say you may have prevented it.

This is my take... If this person behaved this way at the course then I'm sure he behaves this way at the shooting range, in the feild while hunting, etc...

Are the LEO's dealing with a spoiled child? Seems that way. If he hasn't learned, by now, to take authority, especially in this situation, then he shouldn't be allowed to own guns period. It's an accident waiting to happen, and as far as I'm concerned, can be avoided. Charges should have been filed and persued. But sometimes certain people aren't willing to go through the aggrevation.

[tionico]

at the risk of sounding hars, I think you missed it. The first time he was caught exploring the open end of his loaded weapon, I'd have ordered him to ground the weapon, step back, and have a little chat about what he was doing and why he can't do that here... add a warning that if he does it again he's done, no refund. Then, watch him closely... and if he "forgets", make good on your promise. One clown is not worth the risk of one of your other students, or one of the instructors, getting ventilated. You were too lenient. Your first responsibility is to ALL your students and fellow instructors. THEIR safety is primary. For this guy to put himself and everyone else at such high risk repeatedly is unacceptable. You were right to sack this guy, just should have done it sooner. Too many were at too much risk for too long. If I'd been in that class and seen that conduct, I think I'd have said something.... or left.

[jimll1954]

If I may offer an opinion. Removing him was the best thing to do. Although I was not there, if it were my class I might have taken him to a private area and explained to him he was being disruptive and the next time he was that way he would be removed from the class. As for the range, I would have removed him the very first time he was handelig his firearm in an unsafe manner, loaded or not. Safety is JOB ONE when handeling a firearm. This is an advanced course and this guy should have learned safe gun handeling in basic pistol. Sounds like you were damn lucky no one got hurt.

[dpeck]

After teaching CCW for 15 years, I've learned to "take control" of the class for the very start.
I've had "know it alls" show up but as soon as they start, I show a video and ask the student to step outside.
If his attitude makes it apparent he isn't going to abide by class rules, I ask him/her to leave immediately.
I also explain the quickest way to fail the class is for me to hear a slide drop or a cylinder snap shut when I'm downrange.
So far, that's worked for me.
It was good you had a LEO present when your problem student showed up and could remove him before someone got hurt.
Sounds like you did everything "by the book".

[CMNIII]

I believe you handled this well, although, I like the response below that has him put his gun on the table and then be pulled aside for a discussion - despite the interruption this would cause. The second infraction is an automatic boot.

I do not understand why he already had a certificate of completion in his possession when the session was clearly not ended yet - and wouldn't your test follow live-fire rather than precede it?

Just a thought.

[BC1]

I believe you handled this well, although, I like the response below that has him put his gun on the table and then be pulled aside for a discussion - despite the interruption this would cause. The second infraction is an automatic boot.

I do not understand why he already had a certificate of completion in his possession when the session was clearly not ended yet - and wouldn't your test follow live-fire rather than precede it?

Just a thought.

He had a certificate of completion for "Basic PPOTH" from the prior day. That was a classroom only course and included the written exam. He was taking "Advanced PPOTH" when he pulled a "Curley." At the suggestion of many posters, we have new rules. All students must pre-qualify for this class because having taken NRA Basic Pistol and NRA PPITH as pre-requisites doesn't ensure the student is capable of advanced shooting drills. Also, as you say, the exam and both certificates will now be provided at the very end of the course. Thanks for your input... very helpful.

[Bozz]

I think you did right by removing the student, its hard to say how fast I would have gotten to that point if it were my class... I'd like to believe that the 2nd offense would have had him removed, but can't say for sure 100%.

You did good, you learned from it -- and your fellow instructors know what protocol you will follow the next time if there is one.

[handgonnetoter]

Some people are just too stupid to own a firearm.

[Mosbyranger]

Hmmm- it's quite obvious that idiots like this exist, and freely roam unfettered among us. This is perhaps the best argument against constitutional carry that can be made. Really, do you want this person and many others like him carrying without any training?
To the OP's question, I'd have escorted him out after he looked down the barrel the first time.
MR

[grizzly4]

As a former law enforcement firearms instructor i once had a student (a female deputy sheriff) have a miss fire while we were on the the range. she raised her hand to indicate a problem and before an instructor could get to her she swept all the other students to her left side (around 10 students) the she looked down the barrel, i had her report to me in the tower and i called her Sheriff and told him of her actions and that i wanted her off my range. He advised me to have here leave the Academy and come to his office I never saw her again.