OC confronted by police

[FiremanPaul]

LiveLeak.com - Were The Cops Right or Wrong?

My apologies if this has been posted before. Just recently showed up on LiveLeak.

I'm pretty sure the police are in the wrong here but readily admit I'm no expert on the nuances of the law. The responses on liveleak were disappointing in their obvious lack of understanding of the constitution and their willingness to do whatever the police said, just because they said it. Would love to hear the responses here.

I'm sure the OC'er in the video was looking for a confrontation, but more curious about the actual legal standing of the officers involved. Only wish the OC'er had not consented or asked the officer if he had to allow the officer to disarm him. The officer did ask if he could take it to which the OC'er agreed.

[Treo]

If the guy was in FLA the cops were right OC is illegal

After watching the video some points

1. As soon as they said "You are being detained" the OC'r needs to ask for a lawyer and shut up. You can't out argue the cops and if you talk long enough you will say something they can use against you.

2. Don't ask the cops "Am I legally required to do that?" they are not going to give you a straight answer. Know your state's stop and identify laws and comply.

[CathyInBlue]

Police are for investigating criminality. They admit a dozen times that he's committed no crimes, Florida or otherwise. As such, they are investigating a case of non-criminality. I agree, as soon as they said that he's detained, demand a a lawyer and refuse to speak further. And as the guy said, he's filed AID reports before. Demand that a member of IAD be there when he's booked into jail.

[NavyLCDR]

=The responses on liveleak were disappointing in their obvious lack of understanding of the constitution and their willingness to do whatever the police said, just because they said it. Would love to hear the responses here.

Then you are going to be REALLY disappointed here when some people on this forum will post exactly the same response.

[SGB]

That's not in Florida and if open carry is legal wherever it occurred then yes the LEO where wrong.

[BC1]

The police have the right to ask anyone for ID. If you don't provide it you may be taken into custody to determine if you have any warrants. Refusal to provide an ID is proper grounds regardless of the gun issue. He can be detained for obstruction. This a$$hat has been told six or seven times to produce ID and he can go. My head hurts from shaking it in disbelief.

[NavyLCDR]

The police have the right to ask anyone for ID. If you don't provide it you may be taken into custody to determine if you have any warrants. Refusal to provide an ID is proper grounds regardless of the gun issue. He can be detained for obstruction. This a$$hat has been told six or seven times to produce ID and he can go.

Here we go again. Please don't make generic statements that are completely 100% erroneous in most of the states in the rest of America.

For example, in Washington, a person is only required to identify themselves to a police officer if they are actually going to receive a citation or upon demand by an officer when operating a motor vehicle. If the person is in possession of a Concealed Pistol License, they are required to present it to an officer if demanded, but not required to produce any identification to go with it. Other than those three times, in Washington a person is free to refuse to identify themselves to police.

Why is it that everyone who stands up for their rights is an a$$hat to you?!? Please keep your New York attitude in New York. Once again you are showing your incredible desire for America to become Amerika, the police state.

Sources:
RCW 7.80.060
RCW 7.80.060: Person receiving notice — Identification and detention.

RCW 9.41.050
RCW 9.41.050: Carrying firearms.

RCW 46.20.017
RCW 46.20.017: Immediate possession and displayed on demand.

There is no lawful authority, in Washington, for a police officer to stop a person and require them to identify themselves without there being probable cause for the officer to write that person a citation.

My head hurts from shaking it in disbelief.

Mine too.

The responses on liveleak were disappointing in their obvious lack of understanding of the constitution and their willingness to do whatever the police said, just because they said it. Would love to hear the responses here.

Then you are going to be REALLY disappointed here when some people on this forum will post exactly the same response.

Told you so.

[Unfettered Might]

The police have the right to ask anyone for ID. If you don't provide it you may be taken into custody to determine if you have any warrants. Refusal to provide an ID is proper grounds regardless of the gun issue. He can be detained for obstruction. This a$$hat has been told six or seven times to produce ID and he can go. My head hurts from shaking it in disbelief.

Incorrect.

The state of Kentucky has no stop and ID law, therefore unless I am committing a crime I do not have to produce ID on demand when on foot and can politely tell the LEO to stick it. Sure he can arrest me on false charges and then I can sue him civilly in a Kentucky court and even file criminal charges against him, in a Kentucky court, for malfeasance of a public official. I can even file charges in Federal court over a violation of 42USC1983.

[NavyLCDR]

and even file criminal charges against him, in a Kentucky court, for malfeasance of a public official. I can even file charges in Federal court over a violation of 42USC1983.

In Washington, the officer would be committing a gross misdemeanor, Coercion, violating RCW 9A.36.070:
RCW 9A.36.070: Coercion.

It is really sad that a certain portion of our population, even on this forum, are completely OK and even agreeable, to people violating such laws, so long as they wear a badge and uniform while doing so.

[Oldgrunt]

The police have the right to ask anyone for ID. If you don't provide it you may be taken into custody to determine if you have any warrants. Refusal to provide an ID is proper grounds regardless of the gun issue. He can be detained for obstruction. This a$$hat has been told six or seven times to produce ID and he can go. My head hurts from shaking it in disbelief.

BC1: I am one of those people NavyLT was talking about but we have been around this racetrack before. I believe this individual acted like a horse's rear end when he didn't have to. I have looked up requirements to ID yourself to the police and, contrary to what others have said, EVERY state has penalties for failing to identify yourself to a LEO. From some of the information I have garnered, even the state of Washington can impose a fine of up to $500, up to 30 days in jail and up to 6 months probation for failure to identify. This may or may not apply when carrying. Another item said the offender can refuse to identify himself if he feels he is violating his rights under the 5th Amendment.That would indicate he may be guilty of some other offense and you know where that would lead. In this instance, the police gave the person every opportunity to ID himself and everything would have stopped. He chose not to do that. A person like that can cause others that OC to possibly have a hard time with LEOs. To me, being confrontational is unnecessary but there are those (many) who disagree. Anyway, grab a steel helmet and flak jacket and hunker down. There will be lots of incoming fire!