leo firsked me today!

[Rich_S]

[QUOTE=kelcarry;247439]Hey Navy: You mention that the thread writer should have asked "are you detaining me under suspicion of committing a crime?". His answer, at that point in time, would have been "yes", based on what I read into this thread (possible CC and no CCWP). Now what? This thread, IMO, comes down "sticks and stones can break my bones but words can never harm me". Screw the cop and screw the clerk and you just leave--saying "have a nice day officer" is a good ending though--just enough sarcasm--say it to the clerk as well. As far as the cop's actions being illegal---I do not know and you seem to be clear on that. If a cop confronted me when I am carrying a tool belt or a cell phone or whatever but not a firearm, I would answer him, show him and be on my way---am I giving up my constitional rights etal?--as far as I am concerned the answer is no.[/QUOTE

Excellent post. Is it really worth the definite s*it storm that will come your way to one up the cop in this situation? At then end of the day what would leave you in a better position? "Have a nice day officer" shows him you're not butt hurt and takes the satisfaction out of it for him. I even once thanked an officer for "everything he does to protect the public" in a similar incident. I wish I had a picture of the look on his face.

[tactical85]

You might want to study up on your law, the 4th Amendment and Terry v. Ohio, my friend. His actions are what is called an illegal search and seizure. There was nothing lawful about his actions at all.

A bulge in your coat provides reasonable and articulable suspicion of a crime being committed? Really? In today's world of iPods, cell phones, MP3 players, any and all the gadgets a person might be carrying in a belt "holster?"

But, then again, some people will claim that I am just anti-cop....

Stand in front of a mirror and practice these words until they become second nature any time you see a uniform and badgew: "Are you detaining me under suspicion of committing a crime, officer?" If the answer is "no", walk away. If you think that is rude or disrespectful, then say, "Have a nice day, officer" and walk away.

Navy, your right; this sounds like an illegal search which would need probable cause. A "Terry Frisk" (Terry v Ohio) is only of outer clothing for weapons and anything felt must be immediately identifiable as a weapon or other illegal items. If he had felt or actually seen a weapon, that would give probable cause for the search of the bag, not the case here. Contact his Dept. superior so he can learn the law, he did infringe your 4th amendment right and you did nothing wrong. Police are trained to not respond to verbally abusive language so this only knocked his ego a little in-front of the clerk and could in no way do anything to you for voicing an opinion, that's your 1st amendment right. A bad cop like this makes good police officers everywhere look bad, pisses me off hearing stuff like this happening. If I were this guys superior I would make sure he got an understanding of what he did wrong along with an attitude change.

[glendenbreed]

Yeah is the constitution really worth getting in a little trouble (and then cleared ) over.. I think there are some men and women who died that would say no....:sarcasm:

[NavyLCDR]

Navy, your right; this sounds like an illegal search which would need probable cause. A "Terry Frisk" (Terry v Ohio) is only of outer clothing for weapons and anything felt must be immediately identifiable as a weapon or other illegal items.

A "Terry Frisk" is only legal when the subject is already being detained under reasonable and articulable suspicion that a crime has/is being committed in the first place. There was no RAS of a crime here, therefore, the detention itself was illegal as was the "Terry Frisk" subsequent to the detention.

If he had felt or actually seen a weapon, that would give probable cause for the search of the bag, not the case here.

He would have no legal basis to "feel" a weapon, unless it was by accidental contact. The Terry Frisk was an illegal act.

[NavyLCDR]

whitetiger, Rich_S, kelcarry, Keykutter, BC1:


Welcome to YOUR new America, comrades...


I am glad you guys weren't around in the 18th century. I can see it now: "Hey, Mr. Washington.... really, man, just pay the lousy tax. It's only a few coins. Come on, is it really worth this 'revolution' you speak of over a few coins?"

"Mr. Jefferson, Mr. Madison, really, now. Isn't the Constitution good enough already? Why do you want to mess with it? We don't need these 'Bill of Rights' as you call them. Our government will never trample on the citizen's rights. Let the government police itself, it will be OK, you'll see."

Gentlemen, I would suggest you go back to Civics 101. The government does not police the citizen. It is the citizen's duty, responsibility, and right to police the government.

Thank goodness for people like St. John, Heller and McDonald. Don't know who St. John is?

Alamogordo police pay $21,000 to settle open carry lawsuit - Washington DC gun rights | Examiner.com

A police state has it's beginnings when the government's "inconveniencing" of the citizen remains unhindered and unchallenged.

[BC1]

What part of "keep your mouth shut" don't posters understand.

If you have to bang every jerk on the nose you'll spend your entire life banging jerks on the nose. That cop could make your life hell if he and his department want to screw with you. I'm not saying you go through life heeling to these types but understand that there's something to be said about flying under the radar; something to be said about picking your fights carefully.

My father always taught me the person most likely to cause me trouble watches me shave in the mirror every morning. It will be MY poor reaction that causes me trouble. Avoidance, deterrence, de-escalation. You can't fix these types of people. There's important things to do in life... get on with it and forget them.

[Rich_S]

What part of "keep your mouth shut" don't posters understand.

If you have to bang every jerk on the nose you'll spend your entire life banging jerks on the nose. That cop could make your life hell if he and his department want to screw with you. I'm not saying you go through life heeling to these types but understand that there's something to be said about flying under the radar; something to be said about picking your fights carefully.

My father always taught me the person most likely to cause me trouble watches me shave in the mirror every morning. It will be MY poor reaction that causes me trouble. Avoidance, deterrence, de-escalation. You can't fix these types of people. There's important things to do in life... get on with it and forget them.

Godd summary. NavyLCDR's family crest is probaly a shaking fist adorned with a placard saying "I KNOW MY RIGHTS!" You have to fight the battles that need to be fought and you have to let the small stuff slide while laughing at the pin heads who can'y understand that some things just aren't worth the hassle.

[whitetiger]

Wow people I just wanted to air my feelings a little. I get told I am not American and would not have fought in the american revolution. and all kinds of words on my honor. Well I am a marine vet. If something had happen that i deemed worth it I would take it to court and his dept and my lawer. Cause you see It's my decision not yours! I can fight anyone the cop or you it's the reason I fight that makes it matter to me.
you can say what you would do fine but please let me make my mind up for what I do. I was thinking we are on this fourm because we care about our rights to carry and self defence. not to bash each other.
In some past wars people who were on the same sides would get in fights cause they did not agree on how to conduct the fighting of the badguys. They ended up spliting up and were weaker because of it. We are here to band together vs people who want us unarmed and alone. cause a man alone is easy prey. together we are mighty. So if you get dragged out of your car because of a ccw sticker count on my help. This cop finds me somewhere and gives me a few tickets I can tell you I will not let it go and we are going to court.
But are you going stand with me then or tell me how i should have done something other than what I did so I deserve what i get. cause then your just a mouth and deserve no attenton from me.
there the law and there is life, sometime you have to break the law to live. ask washington.
Jefferson, and any pvt in washington's army. people matter when they stand together.

[Rich_S]

Wow people I just wanted to air my feelings a little. I get told I am not American and would not have fought in the american revolution. and all kinds of words on my honor. Well I am a marine vet. If something had happen that i deemed worth it I would take it to court and his dept and my lawer. Cause you see It's my decision not yours! I can fight anyone the cop or you it's the reason I fight that makes it matter to me.
you can say what you would do fine but please let me make my mind up for what I do. I was thinking we are on this fourm because we care about our rights to carry and self defence. not to bash each other.
In some past wars people who were on the same sides would get in fights cause they did not agree on how to conduct the fighting of the badguys. They ended up spliting up and were weaker because of it. We are here to band together vs people who want us unarmed and alone. cause a man alone is easy prey. together we are mighty. So if you get dragged out of your car because of a ccw sticker count on my help. This cop finds me somewhere and gives me a few tickets I can tell you I will not let it go and we are going to court.
But are you going stand with me then or tell me how i should have done something other than what I did so I deserve what i get. cause then your just a mouth and deserve no attenton from me.
there the law and there is life, sometime you have to break the law to live. ask washington.
Jefferson, and any pvt in washington's army. people matter when they stand together.

Consider the source my man. I'd be willing to bet that if your incident ever went to court the cop would win because he could say that he had probable cause. As far as his mocking you you would need a witness. I doubt the bubble head cashier would want too get invovled. I have no issue with what you did. I personally would have taken a different route than insulting his manhood but you did what you thought was right. your life- your decision....

[NavyLCDR]

Can I ask an honest question, whitetiger (and anybody else that cares to answer)? Do you still believe this?:

"Ok up to this point i can see the lawfulness of what he did"
"He was right to check me out"