Another Wal Mart LEO Encounter

[NavyLCDR]

This was posted by another person on another forum. I thought I would copy it here to initiate discussion. This encounter happened in Washington state:

Let me start by saying I started open carrying about 3 months ago and shop at Walmart both in Lynnwood & Everett and never had the cops called on me.

But today I went to go exchange a gift as I bought a shirt for my lead which ended up being to big, so as I get out a older man and looks to be grand son were leaving walmart and I walked across of them and I guess he saw my firearm but I wasn't paying attention to him so I go to the clerk in the front to get a tag for the exchange and then walked back to where the shirts were and grabbed a new one and headed back toward the return area.

As I was slowly walking back toward the line, I see a little kid pointing in my direction and I see its the same old man with him and he was talking to the clerk asking for the manager as "that man has a gun" and the clerk says well he is allowed to. (+1 for walmart clerk) But then he goes on saying if you feel threatened you can call the cops. (by this time I am in line and can hear every word the guy is saying and he is 5 steps away from me with his kid but he is threatened right?)

Line takes about 10-15mins to get to the front and with no sight of any cops I thought maybe they weren't coming. But then as I left three sheriffs greet me and say "I'm sure you know why we are here right?" while smiling and I said I do and understand you are only doing your job. They then ask if I have a cpl and if its loaded and I said yes to both and then they ask why not just hide it then and I just told them because its a large gun (XDm). One asks to see my ID to check up on me and I said even though I don't have to, since you guys are being so nice about it I will (also needed to be somewhere by a certain time and had no time to deal with it)

5 seconds later I am free to go and the guy which was parked next to me started driving off and when I got to the exit he and his grandson could not stop giving me the glare haha

thanks for reading and I think walmart and the sheriffs did a great job in this one compared to a few I have seen.

[SGB]

Sounds like a dozen others and no way to tell if it's a bs story or not.

[defender829]

What if the boy had said "There is a big black man!" Would it have been okay if the manager had replied "He is allowed to be here. But if you feel threatened...". What if the boy had felt threatened by the color of someone's clothes, or shoe style, or physical handicap, or...?
Is it appropriate or legal for LEOs to confront citizens for doing something they have a perfect right to do?

[Cotillion]

Why does every OC story consist of a kid and his parents. Tell them to Stfu and ignore them like the rest of the damn world please!

[jrtyson72]

So, clearify for me while I'm here, too lazy to look it up. I have also seen some youtubes of guys open carry and asked by LEO's for ID. So I'm assuming we don't have to show if we don't have to and why? I know this wil only iritate a cop, but in the vids, the cops just begrudenly go on their way. Does this also apply to conceal carry with the ID thing. And does it apply when walking around or just not when your in your vehicle because my chl intructor told me when/if I get pulled over to show both the drivers license and chl. So I'm assuming that this only applies when walking out in public. Please explain. Thanks.

[Treo]

So, clearify for me while I'm here, {b]too lazy to look it up.[/b] I have also seen some youtubes of guys open carry and asked by LEO's for ID. So I'm assuming we don't have to show if we don't have to and why? I know this wil only iritate a cop, but in the vids, the cops just begrudenly go on their way. Does this also apply to conceal carry with the ID thing. And does it apply when walking around or just not when your in your vehicle because my chl intructor told me when/if I get pulled over to show both the drivers license and chl. So I'm assuming that this only applies when walking out in public. Please explain. Thanks.

Then why should I look it up for you?

[NavyLCDR]

So, clearify for me while I'm here, too lazy to look it up. I have also seen some youtubes of guys open carry and asked by LEO's for ID. So I'm assuming we don't have to show if we don't have to and why? I know this wil only iritate a cop, but in the vids, the cops just begrudenly go on their way. Does this also apply to conceal carry with the ID thing. And does it apply when walking around or just not when your in your vehicle because my chl intructor told me when/if I get pulled over to show both the drivers license and chl. So I'm assuming that this only applies when walking out in public. Please explain. Thanks.

Disclaimer: I can only speak to Washington law without doing further research.

If the situation occurred exactly as described:

1. The deputies had no lawful basis upon which to detain the subject. There was no EVIDENCE to base a reasonable suspicion that the subject was committing a crime.

2. Given #1 above, if the subject had asked, "Am I free to go," the only lawful answer the deputies could have given would be, "Yes, you are free to go."

3. In Washington, a person is only required to identify themselves to law enforcement if a citation for an infraction is going to be issued or custodial arrest is made. Under the same circumstances or if stopped while operating a motor vehicle, identification or driver's license must be provided upon request by the deputy. There is no requirement to carry identification, unless operating a motor vehicle. Even if the person fails to identify themselves or produce an identification document, there is no criminal penalty associated, the law only allows law enforcement to detain the person long enough to establish identity.

4. In Washington, a CPL (concealed pistol license) must be produced upon request of a police officer. However, there is no requirement to carry the CPL unless you are carrying a firearm in a manner/place that requires a CPL - in this case, no CPL was required so the subject would have been perfectly legal to not have their CPL on their person.

5. There is no requirement to produce an identification document in conjunction with the CPL. The CPL by itself serves no identification purpose.

6. The fact that a person might be alarmed or feel threatened by the presence of a firearm is of no consequence in Washington, no law is broken simply because a person is alarmed or feels threatened.

My personal feeling is that too many people have died in order to establish and protect my 4th Amendment rights. I will not dishonor their sacrifice by waiving those rights for the sake of convenience; especially when there is nothing suspicious that the police are actually investigating.

[Firefighterchen]

If you ask, are you detaining me? And they say no, can you just walk away?

Or do you have to ask, "am I free to go?"

[Firefighterchen]

Does anyone reach out for a hand shake when they are confronted by an Leo?

[NavyLCDR]

If you ask, are you detaining me? And they say no, can you just walk away?

Or do you have to ask, "am I free to go?"

If you ask, "Are you detaining me?" and they answer, "No," then you are free to walk away.

Does anyone reach out for a hand shake when they are confronted by an Leo?

Yep. You don't have to be unfriendly or rude to exercise your rights.